Doesn't the Bible Say Not to Judge?

We receive a lot of email from people who say that we're judging and that the Bible teaches that we should not judge.

Ironically, the people who tell us not to judge are actually guilty of judging us. But, apparently that type of judging is okay but the kind of judging we do isn't Biblical...or so the story goes.

What we really need is a good solid resource that tackles the 'judging' passages in the Bible and what they really teach. We think we've found that in the teaching ministry of Pastor Bob DeWaay. Therefore, we are providing you with a link to two radio programs by DeWaay on the subject of judging.

We agree with DeWaay's exposition of the scriptures on this matter. So, if you're one of those people who are wondering what the Bible really teaches on this subject then we cannot encourage you strongly enough to listen to these programs.

Here is the link. Enjoy.

Comments

[Michael Payne]

Remain steadfast! Only Satan and his children want you to stop. May God grant repentance and faith in the Jesus of Scripture to the ravenous wolves that donate their blasphemous handywork to your museum. Godspeed, Mike.

[John Whittle.]

For those that say the bible teaches that we should not judge have only read and understood a very small portion of scripture although it does teach not to, it also teaches that we should discern and judge what is right and wrong. The Spiritual gift of discernment given by God to His church is the authority to judge, but not condemn. When Jesus said "Do not judge but judge righteous judgement" Was He contradicting Himself? Certainly not, He simple used different Greek words to define exactly what He meant. The big problem with many teachers is they fail miserably to expound this truth fully, and many are deceived. Which again, proves the Bible to be correct where it warns us that:- Many will come in my name and deceive...And they are.

[masina]

Do you have a myspace or a banner that I can post as a link on my page?

[Adelaida]

I think you people are sick!!

[anonymous]

I'm a little confused by this because yeah sure the bible tells us not to judge, but it also tells us "And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds." In hebrews 10:24. Quite honestly the whole idea of this website does not sit well with me, because I don't think it's right to talk about people behind there backs, it's called gossip. The bible talks about it a lot especially in the proverbs about how gossip splits up friendships and how it betrays confidence Proverbs 26:20 " Without wood a fire goes out; without gossip a quarrel dies down." In matthew the bible tells us, "If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector." I don't think it's right to post negative things about Churches and their future ministry , I believe that we should be following the pattern that Jesus set up for us in matthew help set churches that my be wandering back on track with positive examples of Christlike passion. while I hope that the curator of this website allows this to be posted I would love to hear input back. Typing can be a little deceiving, I do not mean this in any hostile way but in kindness.

[michael]

Satan wants everyone to not judge things (sin), thats why you see the effort of his in eliminating speaking against sin (by so called preachers). To not take a stand against sin, is to allow it, and promote it. Those that don't like to hear the word "judgement" form their own "church", and thats the candy to the ears that is characteristic of the end-time apostate christianity.
Gods people (the real ones) will see the deception, call it for what it is, and stand in the truth of Jesus.

[michael]

Sin is sin, call it what it is. If a Church is/has gone off the path of Gods' Word, they know fully what they are doing, because if they were true to Jesus, they wouldn't have wandered off to begin with. The Holy Spirit is now guiding Christians (as He always has), but even more so now with all of the satanic influences that have infected "Churches", God knows that His people cannot assume that a church that calls itself such, is genuine. The Holy Spirit is gives guidance on what is correct and what is not (and will continue to do so).

[michael]

Its' also all about "Tolerance". Tolerance is satans' favorite concept, because it encompasses so much of what he uses to deceive Gods' people. "Tolerance" is not taking a stand for Jesus. Thats not what Jesus did. He wouldn't tolerate evil anymore than we are called to tolerate it. As Christians, we are called to take a stand as Jesus would have done/wants us to do, even if it is not "fashionable". Jesus made clear we would be hated for His names' sake, that following Him would real in persecution (especially in these end-times). Even now, fundamental Christians are being thrown out of their own Church. Is that really a Church anymore when that happens? May God continue to grant this website EXCESSIVE exposure, as it is VERY needed. The proof is all around you (if you care to see it). Should Christians (who care) just sit back and watch all of this trash indoctrinate the undiscerning? If you have a problem with the material shown here, you should ask yourself why that is so, and ask yourself EXACTLY what you believe about Jesus. Have you been so inodctrinated that "offending" someone takes precedent over God???????

[Christy]

If we truly love others as Christ loves us, as we're commanded to, we won't just silently watch someone drown in sin. We'll call sin what it is, if we care about them and want them to be saved.

[Aly]

I agree with Christy. If we love others as Christ did he did not make people feel like loosers. But He lived correctly and upright before God and He gave what the scriptures said and did not candy coat them but let it convict the heart of man. Sin is sin. Not just for those that we don't like but for each of us. The word of God is sharper than a two-edged sword, let it cut away the junk in our life and bring conviction and give us a determination to be like our Lord.

[Michael]

You best judge ALL you run across these days, because if you don't, likely you will fall into the abundant lies out there.

And there is a difference between judging "someone" and "something". Seems like a lot of people have a problem distinguishing the difference. But, you can blame that on the so called "preachers" of today. They are ignorant of the Word, and what it says, and after all, satan doesn't want discernment, that is "poison" to his decpetion.

Go the market,you JUDGE a piece of meat, whether you want it or not. is that judging a person? I don't think so (that is a simple analogy for those that can't understand).

You can (and are commanded to by God to) judge whether or not something is in agreement with His Word.

[Joan Daniel Lillo]

Looks like this website has all the answers figured it out. (Please share them)
Where is "Love" in your writing? isn't the most important commandment of Jesus?. Many of the people you judge are trying to make a closer understanding of what God's mission on earth was. Many people (Not including you) are lost and doesn't get it like you guys.

Jesus came for the meek, the weak, the needy, the hunger, the oppressed. For sure is not coming back for the "ones" have it all understood, because that's PRIDE and your writings have a lot of it.

As a follower of Christ I listen your position, read your arguments, and the constant bashing of other Christians manipulating bible excerpts it only damaging yourself. I don't agree with you but I respect it.

I'm still looking for the goal of this website
BE KIND (yeah you can include Tolerance in here),
LOVE YOUR ENEMIES,
Mmmh I prefer following the teachings of JESUS on my own...with LOVE.

[Michael]

Oh yes, "God is LOVE" as much as He is "JUDGEMENT". Lets not forget that little "nasty" word, as apostate preachers have, because thats what satan wants all the ignorant to believe, that you can "do it all" and since "God is love, He will forgive you".

Thats New Age (sewage, when you combine the words).

Fact is, there are aposate Christians, and those who see it all. And if you are one that chooses not to see things for that they are, you are serving satan, no matter what you "call yourself".

Tolerance is also what satan is about. Christians are called to NOT tolerate sin, and judging SIN is not judging a PERSON (see if you can fathom that).

Goal of this website = to expose all of the trash that now exists out there, so that others will hopefully avoid it, as well as educate those that aren't so full of PRIDE that the believe they can be part of it, and still think they follow fundamental Christianity.

Looks like you have already taken a bite of the poison Joan, best you go back and examine what God says about willingly taking part of apostate Christianity ;)

[Rebekah]

Ok in sense everyone has a small piece of the puzzle here.
Yes, Michael God wants us to weigh what people say against his word, and have discernment on what we are going to take in. And Yes, Joan God wants us to love our enemies and pray for those who persecute you. But heres my soap box, no Jesus doesn't want us to tolerate or become immune to sin in any way, Hate the sin not the sinner, its as simple as that. Acts give the story of paul, Incase you didn't know he wasn't always a radical christ follower, He was a pharisee at first. He was at the stoneing of stephen and gave his approval (acts 8:1). But you know what? God got ahold of him and told him that he was persecuting him (even though he thought in his own mind that he was doing what was right), and he changed by an extreme intervention of God. One thing that you have said, Michael, that I absolutely refuse to believe is that just because we are christians we won't every wonder off from God's principals, we are humans, just because we are christians doesn't mean we are safety coated from all sin, or for wandering away from God,In fact thats why Jesus died to offer forgiveness it says in Hebrews 9:22, WIth out the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness. Believe it or not I'm a christian and I sin, It's not the huge sins that are evident in my life sometimes it's saying something that I shouldn't have or allowing myself to think things that I shouldn't. It's not alway the big foxes that tear up the vineyard it's the little ones (Song of Songs 2:15). I don't think sinning for the sake of sinning is the issue in alot of the cases brought before this website, While I do agree that we should be discerning, because there are going to be false prophets in the last days, but I still believe in a God who can do anything and can change anyone. My views on this website are similar to the ones of the anonymous post above. I thinks that we should be doing something about this instead of verbally abusing people behind thier backs.

[ty]

How much more in front of their faces can this blog be? This is on the World Wide Web!
How many of you are parents or teachers? You wouldn't be a very good one if you didn't discern what the rules were and teach them to your children or class. Then you have to discern or judge if the child did something wrong or not. Then, if in fact they did break a rule, don't you have to confront them? And in parent's and teacher's cases, decide the punishment.
Don't you think that this should apply to things that are happening with Christianity as well? The ultimate rule book is God's Holy Word, the Bible. If people are causing others to stumble, shouldn't we know about it? Yes, sometimes things that people do, say, and sell seem so silly that people laugh about them. If it bothers you then send them a link to this website so they can read it for themselves. Nobody here does anything in secret.
Of course nobody is perfect, "no not one." People sin all the time including Christians, including myself. Knowing the rules and enforcing them is what we as adult Christians have to do. Just ask a policeman how many times he/she judges others in a day's time. Did someone break a rule? How should they handle the rule breaker? Are Christians any different when they have the Bible as a rule book? They're not doing anyone any favors when they say nothing about sinning. I know I'm going to get flamed for saying that. Yes, I know that God is the ultimate judge.
Chris is doing a fantastic job of getting his message across. I hope I made some sense after a long day of teaching, and even dealing with a boy who stole something out of my classroom. He's getting suspended for a day, by the way.

[merry]

"Believe it or not I'm a christian and I sin."

Thank you, Rebekah. I wish more Christians would admit that, instead of pointing it out in others. Realizing our own sins should always come first. We need to be very, very cautious when pointing out sin in others.

[Rebekah]

Ty,
Here's my deal, I absolutely believe that we should be Discerning and follow God's rules. Ok you said, "Then, if in fact they (a child) did break a rule, don't you have to confront them? And in parent's and teacher's cases, decide the punishment." That is exactly what I find so very frustrating with this website. I don't see anywhere in that analogy where the parent or teacher is supposed to make posters, a website, or whatever else to show whoever what that child did wrong. No thats not how discipline works. You can't discipline someone by humiliating them, it only creates bitterness and hostility, and as a result they don't trust you. Quite honestly, being a teenager myself, if my parents wrote a website talking about everything that I've done wrong with out talking to me directly, I wouldn't trust them, because they would have betrayed the trust in me that I could take their discipline and instruction. Ty I'm not trying to "flame" You in any way, and I'm sorry about your long day.

[Michael]

Clearly, you can see (or should be able to) who "says it like it is", and who still "misses the point".

TY, you have it down right, well written. However, you will be "shot down" because you take a stand that doesn't fit into apostate Christianity (and God bless you for knowing the difference, and having the guts to say it like it is). Ty doesn't speak the "candy to my ears" that so many want.

Those who do not agree with what TY said, ask yourselves what has become of you. Likely you have wandered from the Faith (yes I am to the point).

We all sin, but DONT let the lie get hold of you that says you are not to "point it out" to others, because you SHOULD do so (Scripture says so). To not do this, you tolerate it. Satan uses tolernace as his greatest weapon against Jesus. You are commanded by God to "correct your brother" (but that isn't fashionable these days) Think about it, this world has declined in standard because "tolerance has set in".

Few people care to take a stand now, and that is among the minority that even care to know that Truth is versus fiction.

[Michael]

We need to be very, very cautious when pointing out sin in others<----sounds like you attend some watered down Christian church (if that is where you get that from).

Get up and act like a CHRISTIAN, take a STAND for Jesus, call SIN a SIN, and point out it is WRONG, and WHY so.

Thats your lesson for tonight :)

[Cliff Sabroe]

So right on, I hear that comment about once a week, it is soooooo frustrating. I can not believe I have not found this blog until now.

CLiff
www.judecommentary.com
www.ayoungpreacher.com
www.fightingpreacher.com

[merry]

Oh, Michae, Michael, how you do misseth the point. We should always deal with our own sins first. Make our own lives pure. I do believe we need to teach others what sin is. That's when we come alongside of them and show them, gently correct them, not tolerating sin of course, but with a loving heart. But only after we've dealt with the sin in our own lives. I don't think this is watered down or apostate at all! ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) Ha.

[ty]

Michael,

Thanks for the encouragement! You made my day and it's just starting. I hope I can respond with more later.

[Rebekah]

Michael,
I admire your passion, but you are completely missing the point to what I'm saying. I Agree with you wholeheartedly that we need to bring correction and discipline to our brothers and sisters in Christ, Matthew says exactly how we need to do it. Think about Jesus' example that he gives us in the New Testament, He's in the temple and sees all the people selling things (and probably cheating people), he gets angry. Does he go over and tell the disciples every little thing that they are doing wrong? No. He goes directly to the merchants and "say's it like it is" DIRECTLY to their faces... and their tables. You see it's not about "tolerating sin" or turning over to "apostate christianity" that is the issue here. It's the fact that this is gossip and gossip is wrong, to put it plainly. There is a time for everything, and I do want to change a lot of what I said in my last statement above because there are a lot of ways you can address sin, the bible even says in a ecc. that there is a time for everything. This is where we as christians need to be discerning as to what time it is. sometimes sin needs to be dealt with gently or other times you just need to get in someones face, but it is in no way beneficial for them to have to find out from someone else that they are being criticized behind thier backs over something they may or may not have even realized they were doing wrong. Michael, I don't mean to sound disrespectful in any way, and I totally agree that Tolerance is a huge issue in america's society, but I don't think Its the issue here.

[ty]

With every case on this site, the sin is public. The people have already done their deed and it's something that's making others confused at the least. We can't go to everyone who has been featured here personally. But again, they themselves have gotten their own message out there for everyone to see. They have done it on "purpose"(so to speak). A private matter within people's lives or a church's problem within the congegation is a different story. I guess that could be called the "dirty laundry." The church or people involved are the ones who should take care of that kind of thing by going to them in private. Yes, they should do it with prayer and love. What we read about on this site is about the people who think what they are doing is right, calling it good, and are doing it in the name of Christ. They might continue to do it. This is when we should judge. Are they saying or doing what God would call good? We have to hold it up to the Bible. There's nothing wrong with that, in fact, we're commanded to do it.

[Michael]

another good one ty.
I will be away for 2 weeks, so unfortunately I won't be comenting on things until I come back.

[A.Cohen]

Michael THANK YOU SOooooo much for you advice to call Sin, Sin and to stand for Jesus! There fore, what your doing very well may be a sin! Your treating believers like their pharisees and hypocrits. He who is not against us is for us even if we don't agree on everything. Saul killed christians because he had zeal without knowledge. You have a lot of zeal also, which I believe is a gift from God. But without love for others (not just love for Jesus) you end up using that zeal to hurt others and there by Gods gift (zeal) becomes a tool of the devil against us.
Does what you write or do bring unity or division?
Yes Jesus said beat your plowshears into swords but not too use against members of His own family.
With the measure you judge others you get judged by and ultimatly you judge yourself by those measures also. No one can measure up to that judgemment and in turn you can become hyper sensitive and hyper critical of yourself and others.
How about going for righteousness,joy and peace in the Holy spirit? Peace to you my brother in Christ!
A.Cohen.

[Eugene Roberts]

I have commented about judging others on a different thread here on allittleleaven, so I'll just copy most of what I said there...

On the subject of judging other people in public:
In Galations it is clear that Peter was present when Paul addressed him in front of other beievers. BUT Paul did not go behind Peter's back, rounded up a lot of support, gossiped about him and wrote an open letter(what a blog basically is) in the hope that Peter will read it and turn from his wrong doing. To just do it in public without the knowledge of the person is gossip.

Let me be clear, I don't have a problem with critique or judgement on people's views and what they say or write. I just think it should be done with love and respect towards that person, him or her being a Christin or not. (1 Peter 2:17 Honor all people. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king.) We should refrain from calling other Christians names like "heretic" or "agents of satan", just because our interpretation of the Bible or scripture is different from theirs or they don't share the Gospel of Jesus Christ at an event like we would have done. It is not for us to judge and condenm them, that is God's work. We may judge their views but must be very very careful to judge them as a person.

[Michael]

Unity or division? Is that supposed to matter anymore? Unity? Who said we all have to UNITE? In CONTRAST, God commands that we COME OUT of apostate Christianity, not "unite with it" (as you claim).

Sounds good on paper, it isn't reality. Many that call themselves Christian are not (if they take part in apostate Christianity). It is as simple as that. And SIN is SIN, always was, always will be. Your knowledge is limited on this subject (evidently), not mine.

Your post reaffirms more of the new world order mentality than anything else. After all, even so called "Christians" will unite under antichrist (and they will believe the delusion it is correct). Read Scripture on it. It is clear. ;)

[ty]

Until Jesus comes back there will never be unity in the church. In the past decade or two, there has been less unity within individual churches than ever. Why? Because of the introduction of "new" ways of worship, etc. We are told that since society has changed, the church, and therefore Biblical doctrine, is passe'(as if society has never changed until recently). We are told we must bring in the ways of the world so that people will come in the church doors. Unless a new church and congregation is formed, this creates dissention within the church and divides it. No unity there. This usually pushes out the people who believe in sound doctrine. Discerning Christians are saying "no way!" to this heresy which has been forced on them. Yes, we have to judge.
It seems that this thread has been stuck on the subject of talking about people behind their backs. The people featured on this site (and I've said it before) have gotten their messages or goods out in public. This blog exposes the message or junk, etc. which is already out. Then there is a section for comments. Is the comments section any different than a newspaper editorial section? The only difference might be that people can have back and forth conversations with each other. Some newspapers have a comments section on their website. This blog is no different. I challenge the people who can't stand "talking behind peoples' backs" to send a link to all of these people who are featured so they'll see it for themselves. Go ahead, do it and stop telling people not to talk behind peoples' backs.
If it's private or personal, then address it in private or personally. If it's public, address it in public. This blog is public as is the material it features. Sorry if I'm so direct, but sometimes I don't like to mince words.

[Michael]

I think that evidence shows ( for the most part ), fundamental Christianity now exists largely outside of most Churches. Satan has taken over most Churches now, they have taken the poison. It only yake a little poison to kill you, satan works best with infiltration of a Church, slowly at first, then once the ignorant have been conditioned, the get conditioned further. God lets people believe the lie, those people can't see it is a lie (as Scripture says would happen). They remain in that "Church", mostly because that is what they are "used to", and they are afraid to give up what is "familiar to them". To get to the point, they "sell out" in favor of tradtion. Tradition means more to them than does the Truth of Jesus.

As TY said, this site exposes what is "already there", and "in your face". Sometimes it takes "something in your face" to make you wake up. Now which side are you on?

[angel777]

Merry, I do agree with you that we must deal with the sins in our own personal lives first, because it will help us to have a more effective witness (much of my poetry deals with this issue). But your comment to Michael was condescending to the utmost. Frankly, I lean more towards Michael's and Ty's opinions.

[Collin]

I find myself a little disturbed at the contents of this website. I just don't know what to say. On one hand, many of the things posted are unsettling. On the other hand, the manner in which this website was created is just as unsettling. However, I believe that has been discussed to a great extent in the posts above so I don't want to rehash all the arguments of judgment and love. What I do want to comment on is about something that seems to have been utterly forgotten. That is all the people who aren't Christians that visit this site. To my understanding, this site was created to expose all the un-biblical, foolish, and blasphemous actions of people so that the Christian community has a better chance defend against and rebuke the sinful actions of these few. What you have successfully done is given unbelievers another reason why not to place their faith in Christ. While Christians might be able to understand and even sympathize with your point of view, unbelievers are going to see a jumble of pictures, videos, and articles showing some of the most extreme cases of Christianity. Furthermore, these postings are often followed by rather sarcastic, judgmental comments rebuking other Christians. How does this look to an unbeliever? Oddly enough, I found this website while browsing another website called disbeliefnet.com. Your website was in a section called blasphemy box with "You won't believe what people believe" in bold lettering across the top. A little ironic, eh? You website was intended to help inform and arm the Christian community against 'idolatry' but it has been effectively turned into a tool used to mock Christ and Christians. Doesn't matter what your intentions are. All that's seen by those who visit this site is anything but the message of Christ. That is evident in how this site has been reposted on secular websites. Consequently, this makes it harder on all Christians to share the word of God. You may not care about offending people and thats fine but I definitely care how Jesus Christ is perceived through the actions of those that follow him. Let us not forget that we are to be a light in this world. Many times we are the only face of Christ that people see and if this is what they see, then we as Christians deserve to be despised and scorned. We already follow a narrow road. Don't add another dozen potholes for us to swerve around.

[merry]

The problem with this conversation, I think, is that the commenters that are all for POINTING OUT SIN IN OTHERS* and JUDGING those who take part in APOSTATE CHRISTIANITY are being slightly deceptive. Deceptive because I KNOW you guys sin every single day. I know this because you are human beings like the rest of us. To have a proper discussion, what we need most here is complete honesty and transparency. I'll start. I'm a Christian, and I sin A LOT. I have to beg God for forgiveness A LOT. Sometimes I admit it takes me a little time to admit that I'm wrong. I need time. God is so patient with me, and always waits for me to confess I was wrong.

I have a loving church family who know what sin is, but they are patient, too. They aren't like a military, always marching to find the next heretic to condemn. Rather, they are a family, ready to lovingly guide a brother who has gone off the path. They choose to do it this way because they themselves know what it is like to go astray and be forgiven. We are all, in a way, apostate. Heretics. Stuck with our sinful human selves for the rest of our lives. Even those of us who are in denial about it and choose to judge others endlessly. We are all guilty of that, too; being in denial about our sinfulness.

Thankfully, Christ already forgave us. ALL of us. Even the most dirty, rotten human beings that no one wants to deal with. Sometimes, it takes a little while for people to come around and realize that they are doing wrong. Some will never come around.

It will take patience and perseverance on our part, and gentleness. Faithfulness. Complete honesty. Scripture is pretty clear that we DO need unity. We need spiritual maturity. Very few people are spiritually mature. Many would claim that they are, but it may be obvious to others that they aren't.

Anyway, I'd like to see some more honesty here. No more deception. Unity matters more than ever, and calling more than half of Christians "apostate" just because their opinions differ is not going to help matters. Let's start by admitting that we DO sin even though we claim to be Christians, and then go from there.

*The all-caps are to emphasize, not to scream. :)

[Michael]

"God is love". Well, he is also 'JUDGEMENT". But, you won't hear that much anymore because that would be OPPOSITE to the candy to the ears prophesied for this age.

So take your pick, judging sin is not judging others. If you cannot discern that difference, you are a victim of your own mind. Fact is that God wants the "gusty" Christians to stand up and point this all out.

If you have a hard time with accepting that, it isn't a matter of "opinion" differences, because the Word is the Word. It is not subject to interpretation by man either, because Scripture interprets itself. Therefore, ANY and ALL "opinions" you might have will be either in line with it, or not. There is no middle ground.

And God bless this site because it is sorely needed among apostate Christianity!!!!

[Kyle]

There is a difference between needless bickering and judging. Most of what goes on here doesn't seem to judge, but instead seems to just cause needless argument amongst Christians. I could care less about a "Hii Saved Me" T-Shirt. I'd much rather spend my energy witnessing to Osteen followers. This site started down the right path but seems to have wandered to needless bickering (is this bickering also? maybe I'm defeating my own message....) My point is, are we defeating our own message as Christians by focusing on trivial issues such as often listed on this site?

[Michael]

Whats trivial about this site? Whats trivial about taking a stand against the filth out there? Oh wait, taking a stand isn't "fashionable" with many "Christians" anymore, because that means you would be "insulting" someone. Well, truth is most of Christianity these days has morphed into some new world order conditioned mess where "anything goes". Lets let you in a little secret..... Jesus would be trashing this trash if He was here right now, as Christians are also called to do. You shouldn't be caring about who you "offend", because thats the best trick satan has played into Christianity now. Do you have the guts to be a REAL Christian??????

[Barb]

I agree with you, Kyle. Other Christians are NOT our enemy. Some of the so-called "Witness Wear" may be kind of tacky - but those who sell it and those who wear it are our brothers and sisters, not our enemies. Seeker-sensitive churches may go a little over the top sometimes in their efforts to attract the lost, but that doesn't make them our enemies - it makes them brothers and sisters who are perhaps a bit misguided. Differences of opinion, matters of taste, and the discomfort caused by bad decisions are the kind of thing supposed to be smoothed over by our common bond as Christians, but here we are allowing them to tear us apart, mocking and ridiculing each other in a distinctly self-righteous spirit. This is the kind of thing non-Christians love to see. And maybe you shouldn't care whom you offend, but you should care whom you hurt, and what kind of impression you give the world as to what Christianity is all about. Do you have the courage AND the heart to accept other brothers and sisters as your friends, not your enemies, even if sometimes the things they do rub you the wrong way?

[Kyle]

Michael, your post seems very angry. I would be happy to discuss this with you, but I'd rather not argue with a brother in Christ. We see different sides of this issue here. Let us not forget that Christians can disagree, as long as we agree on the Gospel of Christ.

My argument is that a "Hii Saved Me" T-Shirt is a trivial matter to bring up. Gospel Feet also seems trivial. But maybe this is where we disagree, who is the audience of this site? If it is only mature-in-Christ Christians, then striking up discussions isn't a negative. But, on the other hand, if the site is meant to shed light on the heresy of Osteen or Bentley, and help those blinded to the Truth, then these matters seem distractions from our purpose.

It isn't about being "unified" in error, but rather, it is about focusing on what is important, the Gospel of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. A new Christian will only be discouraged to learn that it is heretical (or whatever claim is made) to wear a "Hii Saved Me" T-Shirt, especially when the new Christian is still struggling with sex outside of marriage, cussing, drinking, and other forms of sin. This T-Shirt seems unimportant and trivial to me when we have heresy in the church and new Christians struggling with blatant sin.

The last paragraph was made under the assumption that you would agree that Christians still struggle with a sin nature after they have been saved (Romans). This whole discussion reminds me of the eating meat sacrificed to idols business Paul spoke about. If it makes another stumble, I won't do it. I'm at that place. But I'm not convicted that some shoes with a verse on it are heresy. Nor am I convinced that bickering about it (as I seem to be doing) is accomplishing anything to further the kingdom of heaven. I'm more concerned with politicians openly supporting abortion. I'm more concerned with witnessing to Osteen followers. I'm more concerned with spreading the Good News of the Gospel to my coworkers. The fact is, I just can't see how a T-Shirt that says "Hii Saved Me" is important when we have gay rights in schools, laws prohibiting homeschooling in California, unborn babies being murdered, and many other horrific issues to be addressed. See my point? Maybe this just isn't my calling and it is yours. If you would rather discuss this outside of this board, where we don't seem like unloving, uncaring Christians, I'd be happy to call you or exchange email addresses. I'd hate for us to be a poor example by bickering about something like this in front of an unsaved internet crowd.

[merry]

"Jesus would be trashing this trash if He was here right now, as Christians are also called to do."

Oh, is that what we are called to do? Glad to get that straightened out. Lol.

I agree with Kyle, who makes a good point. Is "trashing the trash" shown on this site really accomplishing anything for the Kingdom? I comment on the junk at this site because it's hilarious and entertaining to make fun of it, but seriously, I think some people try to make it way too deep.

We have to keep our priorities straight. The greatest commandments are "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength" and "Love your neighbor as yourself."

If you aren't accomplishing this through your words and attitudes, then maybe it's time to get off the internet and get your priorities straight. This website, though enjoyable, is certainly not the center of the Christian faith. It certainly isn't my calling to "trash this trash", that's for sure. Instead, all Christians are called to carry out the two commandments I listed above.

[Lola]

Merry you are one of the wisest and sanest people on here, and I'm proud to call you my sister in Christ. You're an amazing young woman, and you're going to do great things in His service. Keep speaking your mind and heart as you grow in faith and wisdom. We all need levelheaded, goodhearted folks like you around to help keep us centered on what REALLY matters.

[Michael]

Angry, sure, why not? TRUE CHristians are angry at all of this, because we have the guts to stand up and complain, call sin and evil for what it is, not "sit back" and "take it" like a patsy (thats what people have been conditioned for, to "stay in line", and "not complain", while Jesus gets disgraced.

If ANYONE that calls themselves a Christiand does NOT get angry anout this, they are serving the other side (yes, call it for what it is), and that includes the "God is love" (trash). You NEVER hear people say the other half of it, because it "isnt what they like to hear/believe".

All Christians are having their chance to prove what they stand for now, and sadly most will just sit back and "hey, its' all good, because God is love".

Get ready for the heat!!!!!

[Barb]

Michael, ever heard of the "No true Scotsman" fallacy?

[Kyle]

Michael... You asked me what I saw as trivial. I answered. I'm just asking for clear Biblical perspective on the importance of the tearing down of "Gospel Feet" and the "Hii Saved Me" t-shirt. Show me what you're so passionate about, just as I explained to you why I am not. I'm not saying that your concern is unfounded. I'm saying that unexplained rebukes look like attacks. And attacks cause dissention.

It is true we should stand up for Christ. I have no argument about the truth being presented. My concern is that this site has a major lack of presentation. "Gospel Feet" was posted without a single comment. It as if it were presented to hungry lions with Caesar looking on from his high thrown. No royal decree is offered as to why it deserved this fate. But then this is Caesar. He doesn't answer to anyone. Let the coliseum filled with people see just how Christians treat each other. Watch and behold those that follow Christ the Savior. This is how they treat each other.

Or is it? What does Paul say about how we should speak to one another?

“Likewise urge the young men to be sensible; in all things show yourself to be an example of good deeds, with purity in doctrine, dignified, sound in speech which is beyond reproach, so that the opponent will be put to shame, having nothing bad to say about us.” Titus 2:6-8 (NASB)

“Let your speech always be with grace, as though seasoned with salt, so that you will know how you should respond to each person.” Colossians 4:6 (NASB)

This site doesn’t seem to specialize in graceful speech. We need to be a people of sound speech. So if our mission is to turn those away from their apostasy, how should we do it? Let’s look at 2 Timothy 2:4.

“[P]reach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction.” (NASB)

Notice where the rebuke comes in. It isn’t alone. It comes with patience and instruction. We are to exhort upon the Word of God. Matthew Henry’s commentary explains that the words reproving and rebuking are to “convince wicked people of the evil and danger of their wicked courses. Endeavour, by dealing plainly with them, to bring them to repentance. Rebuke them with gravity and authority, in Christ’s name, that they may take thy displeasure against them as an indication of God’s displeasure.”

So, if that is the way to do it, how would we accomplish it? It certainly wouldn’t be to post their sinfulness on a site and let Christians take a turn holding the stick of rebuke. Do these people receive any emails prior to this being posted? Has anyone consulted those we are ridiculing?

Michael, this isn’t about the “God is love” business. That’s a defense often used by those who disagree with rebuke. Rebuke is often mistaken as judgment. So people throw the “God is love” line just to show that they know the Bible. The fact is, I don’t have to agree with you Michael. You don’t have to agree with me either. It doesn’t mean that either of us are “serving the other side.” It doesn’t mean either of us are “patsy” Christians. It does however mean that one of us is wrong. If we both stay in the Word and stay in prayer, then I trust God will reveal to that individual the error of their ways, no matter who it is.

I’ve made the mistake of forcefully arguing my point. I’ve shoved my interpretation of Scripture down my brother’s throat. And you know what happened? I found out that I was wrong. I don’t want to make that mistake again. My views aren’t inerrant. God’s Word is inerrant. The Word is the mirror of my life. It points out my sin. I’m not here to point a stick at anyone. I’m here to say, “Hey, wait a second, is this the way Christians act?” But you don’t answer to me. His Spirit is inside you. See what He has to say about it in His Word. If you want to discuss it with me, I’m here. If you don’t want to discuss it, that’s fine too. But I urge my fellow brother’s and sister’s in Christ to watch what we say, because there are a whole lot more watching even closer.

[merry]

Lola, thanks for making my day. I appreciate the encouragement. God bless you.

Barb, lol! That's what I was thinking, too.

And Michael, love you in Christ too, though you know we disagree. You said, " . . . 'God is love' (trash)." You're accusing Christians of only focusing on God's love instead of a balanced picture, when you yourself are only focusing on God's wrath and judgement. There desperately needs to be some balance here. God is all these things.

If the love of God is truly trash like you say, then all of us are going to burn in hell, including you, I hate to inform you. If God's love is truly trash, then there is no hope for anyone. If that's what you believe, then no wonder you're so angry! If God's love is trash, then ALL love is trash.

Did you not know that Christianity is centered around the greatest love given to anyone? It took much love for Jesus to die for us, and if that love is trash, then there's pretty much no point in being a Christian. I'm praying for you, brother. Try to find a balanced picture in your Christian life, and I'll work on that as well. God bless. :)

[Lola]

Amen, Kyle and Merry! You said exactly what was in my mind and heart, so much better than I could have myself, and with so much more patience, love, and wisdom. A namby-pamby faith that reduces God to a happy loving smiley face is surely in error, but so is faith of terror and judgment that neglects God's very real mercy, great enough to cover a multitude of sins, even yours and mine, even murder and tacky merchandise, even getting too caught up in our own understanding and emotions and forgetting just how multifaceted and awesome God's nature really is.

[Joshua Buttler]

Everybody likes to point out that God is "love" but first and foremost He is HOLY! The angels don't fly around His throne for eternity day and night crying "love, love, love". They say "HOLY, HOLY, HOLY". He is first and foremost a HOLY and JUST God. Too bad we don't ever seem to preach that in America. :(
God have mercy on us and our country.

[A Slave Of Christ]

Let your light so shine so as to put away all darkness.
Expose the unfruitful deeds of the wicked. It is no wonder that the servants of Satan masquerade around as servants of righteousness. Expose them. Expose them.

Do not back down.

[Charles]

I respect your attempt to preserve what you consider genuine Christianity. However, there are those who genuinely try to convey a timeless truth in an unorthodox fashion, that will ultimately offend some and win others. I am reminded of Paul (Phillipians 1) when he addressed the concern of those who preached Jesus with wrong or ulterior motives, he quoted, "What then? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is preached; and in this I rejoice, yes, and will rejoice."
I agree some things you post on your site are outrageous, but there are still some who genuinely felt in their heart would either benefit the church or the unbeleiver. The message is timeless, the medium constantly changes, but the light will always draw...

[Sandy]

You're for real brother, the Lord bless you!

As I recall, there are no less than four specific instructions for us to judge in the NT. I'm not including the one about "we shall judge angels" in that because we're not talking about angels. We're talking about poor diverted brothers and sisters whose knowledge of God's Word is so meagre that they cannot discern. IOW, they don't know the real well enough to recognise the false. With these dears ones we need to uncompromisingly point out the error and gently love them back to the truth.

Then there are real false teachers who, whether through unbelief or self-worship (largely the same thing, I'm sure) deliberately twist the truth of God's Word. It's *them* I'm really unhappy with!

Anyway... Have a great day and the Lord bless you, one and all. Read your Bible! :-)

Cheers,
Sandy.

[Jfreak13]

It sounds like there's a misunderstanding about what a Christian is and what they look like. Most, if not all, of these false prophets are exactly that, false prophets! They teach a different gospel than Christ taught. They should be judged by the church. Don't you remember when Christ gave the 'woe to you' sermon to the scribes and pharisees? How about Paul when certain men were named in the scripture after they had to be judged? Does anybody know the story of Elijah and how he mocked the false gods on Mt. Carmel? If when you look at this website or these comments you think to yourself, "Why are these people so upset? They act like they're in some kind of war or something...", then you've missed it. We're in a war. If you're not, then you need to seriously consider what you are doing. Eph 6 speaks of the armor of God. We strive against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.