Emergent Distractions Away From The Gospel

Once you jettison Sola Scriptura and redefine the gospel like the Emergent Church has, then you will be "tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes (Eph 4:14)."

Now the Emergent Church is encouraging churches to atone for their environmental sins by reducing their carbon footprint so that they can do their part to fighting man-made global warming.

Comments

[Nick]

I was very amused by one of his last lines. "...saving money and creation at the same time" I though it was Jesus' job to save creation... I guess now I can do it all myself by reducing my carbon footprint. LOL...

[Stan McCullarfs]

This has to be a joke. No one could be so stupid.

[Sylvia]

I bet a lot of us could decrease our carbon footprints if they started Bible-believing churches closer to where we live.

[joshua]

I agree sylvia.

Omaha Nebraska for instance has very few bible believing churches.

most here have gone seeker-sensitive or emergent or universalist.

[Nillock]

Forgive me, but I'm not seeing the idolatry here. Sure, I'll admit the video is kitschy and you don't need software to tell you about carbon footprints. But isn't it responsible and wise to be conscious about energy use?

[James]

What is it that makes it emergent? It seems to me this could as easily be a Presbyterian thing, etc. Something liberal. And it's not like they're twisting scripture.

And what is it about carbon dioxide pollution that is like a red flag for Lutherans? It's as if mentioning global warming was anti-scriptural.

[Ian Smith]

Remember, the bible says that wherever two or more are gathered in Jesus' name, He is there also... I bet we could totally win some of those fantastic prizes he mentioned. I bet a congregation of two people has a really low carbon footprint!

There are also probably some Christian missionaries who live in the jungle who have a really small carbon footprint too -I heard Bruce Olsen didn't even have electric for like decades... they could totally get some of these prizes!

[Stephen Archer]

I wonder what a congregation's footprint looks like?
The amount of carbon that humans use is infinitely smaller than what volcanoes and the seas emit each each.
In fact, most scientists dispute any global warming or climate change scheme and prove that they are absolutely nonsensical!
And then, you would have to ask yourself this one:
what does this have to do with Christianity?
As far as I know, the Adamic Covenant has not gone away. We all still have to work to the sweat of our brow to eat and provide for our families (it isn't easy) because of sin. Nature itself is disintegrating, all of creation is groaning, even our bodies are dying day by day. How could any scheme combat something that is instituted by God!
I think the message that is missing here is that of the Cross and what He has done for us! How 'kewl' are christians going to be when giving THAT message? Me thinks, not very 'kewl' at all (by the world's standards) because they are not going to be contributing to the 'global mind' that is promoting this 'carbon footprint' ideal.

[walksbyf8h]

What is it that makes it emergent? It seems to me this could as easily be a Presbyterian thing, etc. Something liberal. And it's not like they're twisting scripture.

And what is it about carbon dioxide pollution that is like a red flag for Lutherans? It's as if mentioning global warming was anti-scriptural.

If I understand correctly, what makes it emergent is that Emergents not only skew scripture but they direct their energy and resources to those things that are not a part of The Great Commission. Money that could have been used to support a pastor overseas, feed the hungry, clothe the naked, or buy someone a Bible was used to make a video that has nothing to do with what Christians are charged to do.

The Gospel of Jesus Christ is all that matters. And I agree, Emergents are in all denominations of Christianity.

[room2blog]

@stephen
> In fact, most scientists dispute any global warming or climate change scheme and prove that they are absolutely nonsensical!

Got a source for that, other than Conservapedia? Then again, even if "most scientists" really disputed global warming... What matters more is what most geoscientists (more accurately: climatologists) think of the matter. If you want to got number crushing: http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/~nathan/pdf/ngeo338.pdf. I assume you know what correlations are and how to interpret them.

@walksbyfaith
> ...make a video that has nothing to do with what Christians are charged to do.

Genesis 2:15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.

Point granted, you may argue we're not in Eden anymore, but I'd say acting responsible towards creation still applies. Btw: saving energy ~ saving money ~ more funds for "part[s] of The Great Commission".

[broken_sword]

The real enemy is in the armor.. NOT outside the armor~!
Forget Carbon footprint, how would we stand before the great white throne of jugdement with our Sin footprint?

Oh wait... people don't preach sin, righteousness, judgement and hell nowadays.... No wonder, there is no ministry of the Holy spirit (John 16:7,8).

[Kairos]

room3blog,

There are a large number of scientists that dispute the claims that man is causing global warming.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Io-Tb7vTamY

Here's some real science for you. It proves that the earth has been COOLING for the past few years NOT warming.

You also need to read Climate Confusion

[James]

re: distractions to the great commission. Isn't that more or less the line that the disciples used when the woman broke the flask of perfume over Jesus' head? Besides, the guy is saying churches can save money by being more energy efficient. Why waste money on heating that could have been given to the poor?

re: there ain't no global warming... anybody who thinks that you can arbitrarily pollute any closed system without consequence is a fool (hopefully not in the Mt 5:22 sense). I could have told you that when I was eight years old.

[pastorharold]

Quote all the science you want!

But this earth will be here when Jesus returns. You can not destroy it, you can't force God to hurry back before we get ahead of his schedule. He has allready wrote the end of the book. Look at the carbon footprints left in Rev ch 6,7,8,9,14,15,16....

These people choose to worship the creation rather than the Creator. Nothing new, Most pagan religions worship the earth, sun, wind, rain, or now the whole in the ozone layer. What will they think when Christ comes through it on a white horse?

[James]

pastorharold: "These people choose to worship the creation rather than the Creator."

Must we despise and defile creation in order to demonstrate that we love God better? I try to take good care of my wife, keeping her safe and comfortable to the degree that I can; does that mean that I worship her rather than the Lord?

There is a certain paranoia within Lutheranism regarding any sort of environmental preservation. Interesting and incomprehensible.

[pastorharold]

James,

For the record I am a Baptist. And I see nothing wrong with saving a few dollars on utilitys if you can. But this earth is "groaning" because of sin (after Gen 2). Until you can find a way to stop sin(you can't) this earth is going to be falling apart. So why bother? Answer: people are not fixed on the new Heaven and "new earth". All they see here and now.

I want to tell people about this new earth, NOT how to fix up the old one! I"ll not spend eternity in an old 'fixer-upper', I'll be in a new and perfect creation! Take care of your soul, it is eternal! All these other things will pass away. You can not save this planet!

We have no biblical commission to stop global warming, not use plastic, not drill for oil or cut down trees! The phrase "tree hugger" refers to their love of the enviorment. The trem Christian refers to ones love for Christ! So, who calls us to this 'worthy' cause of saving the earth? Answer: The Environmentalist! NOT the Theologian! What book will you follow? The science book or the Bible?

[Stan McCullars]

...anybody who thinks that you can arbitrarily pollute any closed system without consequence is a fool...

What's up with that? I think everyone should arbitrarily pollute as much as possible. I, for one, do all I can to make the earth a worse place to live for everyone. I dump my trash along the highway. I pour used motor oil in my neighbor's lawn. I drive big, fuel inefficient cars with the air running on high and the windows down. For fun, I randomly cut down trees on my farm. Although I don't talk about it often, for kicks I like to kill animals in the wild.

I just a typical guy who thinks Global Warming is a crock. Oh wait, the earth has been cooling for a few years. I guess I should go with the new term: Climate Change.

[room2blog]

@Kairos
> There are a large number of scientists that dispute the claims that man is causing global warming.

And a large number of historicists dispute the claims that there was such a thing as the Holocaust.
Scientific consensus is: There is manmade global warming.
There is obviously a possibility this consensus is wrong, but it is very likely that it's not and in this kind of science we're always talking about probabilities, not mathematical proof.
You also need to read "The Logic of Scientific Discovery" (http://www.amazon.com/Logic-Scientific-Discovery-Routledge-Classics/dp/0415278449/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1229367957&sr=1-1) and a good introduction into statistics and probability theory.

@pasterharold
> These people choose to worship the creation rather than the Creator.
Nope. Sorry... no. Taking a basic effort to not vandalize creation has nothing to do with worshipping it. It's simple common sense. If you want a little taste of what happens when we abuse creation take a trip to Lake Karachay (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Karachay).

> Nothing new, Most pagan religions worship the earth, sun, wind, rain, or now the whole in the ozone layer.

The hole in the ozone layer is a completely different issue... But while we're at it: there's a reason that people have to use sunblock in Australia and that Australia and New Zealand have the highest skin cancer rates.

[Manfred]

As my wife is fond of pointing out, Christ sustains creation and nothing we can do will destroy it. Man's wisdom, including what he calls "science" is foolishness before God.

It's sad that people who claim to be Christian do not see the line between being good stewards of creation and whatever part of it is in one's power and being useful idiots for the earth worshiping pagans who want to deconstruct civilization.

Nothing on the Earth will survive the fire of God's judgment, so we should store up treasures in Heaven and fix our eyes on what is unseen, seeking to honor the Lord by being obedient to His Word rather than tossed about by the opinions of men.

[Lee Shelton]

I thought this was a joke until I saw their actual web site at www.theregenerationproject.org.

[Chad]

James 1:27

"Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world."

[pastorharold]

Please see the web site posted by Lee Shelton on this thread.

My point exactly! Look at how the environment is brought to the front of the church(shouldn't God be there?). If this is a mandate from God, why the $10,000 prize? The Holy Spirit should be impressing this on all churchs. The church don't reward people for not sinning. Why reward them for using organic coffee or recycled toilet paper?

Will you answer these questions?
All of them?
Can you save the planet?
Will this ensure we have a beautiful earth for God to destroy?
Will this slow or speed up His return?
Will clean air over come a sinful heart?
This earth is in labor (Rom 8:22) can you abort it?
How much time and money have you wasted on this?
Where in the NT are we told to do this?

"My kingdom is not of this world" Jesus Christ

[lublub]

While I believe that human activity contributes to between 30%-50% of global warming, I would be far more delighted if the software calculated a church's gospel-heartprint (forgive me when they actually use this). You could calculate it in hearts. One heart for each person in attendance at church on a Lord's day when the gospel is faithfully preached.

I also propose a carbon cap for bad preachers. It's a special device that the congregation can fit over the nose and mouth of any pastor refusing to teach God's word. It effectively eliminates the carbon output of bad preachers, which has a an effect that is infinitely more disastrous than regular CO2.

[KS]

Whatever happened to "No cause but Christ?" Fun and easy? It looked pretty complicated to me. Fill this out, compare this to that, come back in year. Uh-huh, this is on the forefront of my mind; This silly web site? Being a good steward of the earth isn't hard to do. So why is everyone making this so complicated? It's like there is some tingly mystical elightenment that comes with knowing that "you care" and let everyone know you do. Of course, the $10,000 worth of prizes certainly sends a tingle my way. :)

I think we need to be more concerned about our sin-footprint that the fallacious carbon one. Hmm, I think if we got rid of the "worship bands" that should remove a Sasquatch sized print right there. Oh, there I go again.

Again, this is just sad. Could this be yet another vain attempt to draw unbelievers into the church? "Hey dude, you should come to our church! We're green, man! Like, recycled Bibles and sustainable pews made from range-free hay. C'mon and save the planet with us."

Oy veh!

[Christy]

I've heard it said that if you don't like global warming, just wait and see what Jesus is gonna do to the planet. There's nothing wrong with being good stewards of what we've been given. Recycling's a good idea, not using more than we need of the finite resources we have, planting trees, etc. But it's not gonna get anybody closer to heaven, and neither is not doing any of these things gonna keep someone further from heaven. Focusing on it is a distraction from the spread of the gospel.

[john smith]

Its fairly ironic that accusations of scriptural distortion comes into play within the various criticisms of this guy in the video. I believe early on in the Biblical text God clarifies man's role over nature. He is to tend to it and care for it; man can even name it if he likes. So I am lost in the many assumptions from this post which pin this guy as anti-scriptural or an ideological opponent of Christ's or the Bible's message?
What if this guy genuinely took scripture seriously and felt a calling from God to act upon it in his convictions of climate change? You have no more authority in calling him a "distorter of scripture" than he has in calling you "an inactive member of Christ's community." It seems absurd that he would throw this criticism at the many of you. Well I say it is equally absurd to call him a distorter of scripture.
Each individual views the scriptures through specific lenses. We each read scripture differently at times. We are all distorters of the gospel in some sense. We are mere humans trying to understand the word of God which was written thousands of years ago. It is a daunting task for anyone. It is with great arrogance that once can claim another's understanding of the gospel as incorrect. Don't get me wrong, there are incorrect interpretations of the scriptures, but these accusations must be made in humility and with great evidence to overturn them. Therefore, I think the writer of this post is arrogant.

[pastorharold]

John,
What?!?!

Lenses, differently, different times, thousands of years ago, daunting task, arrogant.....

You sound like you have no hope of ever understanding the Bible. Much less taking a stand one way or the other. If you don't know what you believe how can you tell others? Some things call for a holy boldness. With the indwelling of the Holy Spirit we able to understand the Word of God, then HE empowers us to stand up and proclaim it.

Any time some one wants to bring earth care to the head of the church God's people, ought to "lift up their voice and cry aloud"! Go look at their sites: it's about being green; not about being holy! How can we let the creation share time with the Creator?

Hey, I turn the lights off, air up, heat down and fix a leaky faucet to save money. Not this earth! Spending God's money to save what he built and what he will destroy is a complete waste of his money! As a kid we had contest to see who would bring to most people to church. I never dreamed the churches would be having contests to see who could save the planet from pollution. We are to preach Christ for the redemption of sin!
Not Christ and clean air, clean water and no fossil fuels!
Christ and Christ alone!

[lublub]

John,

I also used to think the Bible couldn't be understood? Why? Because when my pastor read some of it to us, he always said it meant something unrelated, or so softened the hard meaning of the text that it became meaningless. If I read what the Bible really said, it was so unyielding and so terrifying that I didn't want to know those things, and so I lived in the murky Christianish doom that felt like maybe if I was a little bit good sometimes that it would be enough to earn God's graces, but in my heart I never believed it, and secretly knew I was damned.

But once I started hearing the word with all its hard edges intact, I was relieved. Even though I was damned, utterly dead in my sin, at least I was hearing the truth. Before you understand the gospel you must understand the crushing weight of the law that God will be utterly just when he dispenses his wrath upon you. If we didn't earn God's total wrath and destruction, then the cross is just a dramatic element, and Christ is just a masochist, and God is just a cosmic child-abuser.
Instead, Christ sweat blood praying and begging God to find another way to save sinners, but there wasn't one, and so God delighted in pouring out the full measure of his wrath on Christ, his son, in order to save us.
Of course we should flee evil. As Christians we should abstain from gossip, greed, lust, anger and forms of unholiness. We should be perfect, as our father in heaven is perfect. This means be good stewards over the money in our churches, as well as the money in our families. It means good stewardship of everything God has given us to oversee.
But unless we are covered in Christ's righteousness, any "good" deed we attempt will reek to God like rotting menstral blood.

[S McKee]

It's obvious Mr Carbon Footprint here doesn't live in Edmonton Alberta, it was -40 this weekend and my apartment had no heat...Global warming...bring it on baby! If there was a coal burning car I'd buy it. So fork over the 10 large Mr Milk Toast we're the coolest, and maybe we can use it to actually tell people about Jesus so they don't end up in hell; you know the bad global warming place. Is this what North American Christianity has come to?

[room2blog]

@SMcKee
> It's obvious Mr Carbon Footprint here doesn't live in Edmonton Alberta, it was -40 this weekend and my apartment had no heat...Global warming...bring it on baby! If there was a coal burning car I'd buy it.

Being uneducated is nothing you should proudly wear as a badge. To paraphrase Kant: Dare to think.

@Harold
> Christ and Christ alone!
Yo Brother! I assume you oppose homosexuality in practice. Would you preach that, or is it just a conservative distraction away from the Gospel?

I have this slight inkling that anything remotely connected to the issue of environmentalism (or God forbid: mentioning the term "Global Warming") provokes some sort of Pavlovian reflex in "bible believing" circles that results in the reiteration of roughly sketched stereotypes (leftist liberal bultmannian apostasy!) and the burning down of crudely constructed straw men (Global Warming/Evolution/The Axiom of Choice/String Theory/Chose Whatever Subject Threatens the World View You Grew Up with is not "real science"(TM)).

How exactly does preaching "Christ and Christ alone!" work in your opinion? Is it all words hurled towards the unrepentant masses or is living a lifestyle that strives to fulfill the commandments God has given us just as much a part of preaching Christ?

For the record: I don't believe that we will save the planet by using the resources we have been given responsibly. But on the same tangent: I won't save every dying child in poor countries by giving money for charitable causes or buying Fair Trade coffee. Which doesn't release me from the duty to strive to do the best I can.
Just because the whole place might get torched down anyway tomorrow doesn't give me the right to wreck it.

[pastorharold]

Room2blog
Name says it all, room to talk and no room to listen.

I have answered all of your questions in the 4 post I have made above

You on the other hand have not answered mine.

[Zappy]

Yikes, Carbon Dioxide is not a pollutant, people!!!

..but regardless of whether global warming is happening or not, this whole environmental movement being used as a "crisis" (ie excuse/pretext) for us to all forget our "differences" (ie doctrines/absolutes/sovereignty/property) as we unite as "one world" to solve it.

It's the old problem-reaction-solution Hegelian Dialectic process again.

If you don't know what I'm talking about, go read about the process known as "Diaprax" at authorityresearch. com

[Christy]

Room, I don't think anybody's advocating trashing the place just because it might not be here tomorrow. As I said before, being good stewards is right. We just need to make sure that our priorities are straight. We tend to spend money on the things that are important to us, and this church is spending almost 1/3 of my husband's annual salary to give to the churches that reduce their carbon footprints the most. That, of course, seems like a lot of money to me, though it might not to them.

[room2blog]

In general: I don't fully agree with the general message and methods employed by the video.
I do believe that global warming is at least partially manmade and a global challenge. Not only does it have an environmental effect but it's also matter of social responsibility because these effects are primarily being felt by the poor. But even if you don't believe in global warming (a POV for which you should be able to cite more than one highly critized source(1)) you should still be aware of the fact that fossil fuels are a limited resource and drilling in the Gulf of Mexico will only set postpone the problem and will _not_ lead to falling gas prices.

I don't know whether it's necessary to give out a price for the "coolest" congregation, I tend to say no it's not, even though it surely wouldn't hurt to financially support congregations who want to invest toward a more sustainable use of energy (buy energy saving light bulbs, improve effectiveness of heating through isolation and a modern central heating...). Sustainability should result in a lower TCO for the congregation thus free up financial resources for other taks in the long run.

@Christy
> I don't think anybody's advocating trashing the place just because it might not be here tomorrow.

I agree that most wouldn't advocate deliberately thrashing the planet but many seem to have the attitude that it doesn't matter whether a car consumes 6l or 10l per 100km (2), what happens to the radioactive waste we produce and if we destroy valuable biotopes to get to the ressources we need.
Sinful acts have consequences, no matter what kind of act it is. Gods grace is greater than that sin, but we shouldn't cheapen his grace by being wantonly negligent about it.

@pastorharold
> Room2blog
> Name says it all, room to talk and no room to listen.

I'm sorry if I made that impression, so let's both get back to the factual level, ok?
I tried to adress the question in a broader scope, because I actually don't think they hit the core of the problem. My answer to most of the question will be a simple no, but as I said this doesn't relieve me of the resposibility I have been given any more than does the fact that I won't save society by trying to be a somewhat agreeable person relieve me from the responsibility of not being a jerk for the mere purpose of being a jerk.

> Can you save the planet?
No.
> Will this ensure we have a beautiful earth for God to destroy?
No.
> Will this slow or speed up His return?
No.
> Will clean air over come a sinful heart?
No.
> This earth is in labor (Rom 8:22) can you abort it?
No.
> How much time and money have you wasted on this?
None. At least I'm not actively aware of it (which doesn't mean I'm perfect in what I do, that's usually what causes me to waste time and money, me being imperfect). I have already mentioned the TCO, have I?

> Where in the NT are we told to do this?
Since when is the NT all we have that's relevant? You'd have a very hard time opposing _monogamous_ homosexual relationships if you had only the NT as a source.
Obviously there is no commandment "Thou shalt not waste more fossil fuels than necessary to get your pickup truck running", but my understanding of Genesis and Mosaic law hints towards a high respect for creation and a high amount of responsibility that's been giving to us. I'm not a theologian and my greek is very limited (I know arete :)) so I won't be able to give you a thorough exegesis on the matter.

With this longish post I hope I answered some questions :). Peace to you have fun prepping stuff for Christmas.

===========================
(1) I agree that the arguments of Al Gore's "An Inconvenient Truth" might be presented in an unscientific manner and flawed, too. Fortunately I tend to get my information from different sources.
(2) the German version of the Volkswagen Golf needs 6l, the American version 10l and it gets sold, so apparently people just don't care. It's very telling that the allegedly most advanced country on this planet has cars that might as well be burning the gas directly to power a steam engine if you consider their effectiveness.

[pastorharold]

Mimi
God is clear about homosexual in the NT (ROM 1:26&27)
When God told Adam to keep the garden he had not sinned yet. After that sin the whole earth is under a curse. Lets accept that and get on with telling a lost world how to be redeemed from this curse.
I have been distracted enough, I'm done.

[beon]

Room2Blog said:
-------------------------------------------------------------
How exactly does preaching "Christ and Christ alone!" work in your opinion? Is it all words hurled towards the unrepentant masses or is living a lifestyle that strives to fulfill the commandments God has given us just as much a part of preaching Christ?
-------------------------------------------------------------

Perfect question Room! Preaching Christ is to be directed at the church and unbelievers alike.
We preach the law that convicts of sin. Even the best of us have been miserable stewards of God's law. We've wasted food and other goods, been gluttonous, mistreated our belongings, wasted the money god has given us, been frivolous, polluted the air with harmful chemicals that have directly contributed to the death's of our neighbors. We've been sinister and selfish in almost everything we've ever touched, putting ourselves before God and the rest of mankind. We justly deserve the full measure of God's wrath: eternal punishment in hell.

We preach Christ who sacrificed himself to save us, propitiating the wrath of God stored up for us. As a result of Christ's good work, God declares us (despite our wickedness) to be righteous. He transfers/credits Christ's utter perfection and sinlessness to our account so that He can delight in us.

We also preach the other use of the law, Christian living. This only matters if God has saved you, otherwise it is worthless. (It literally smells to God like rotting menstral blood.) Christian living is not demanded of the saved, it flows out of from the saved. It is the result of gratitude to God for the infinite mercy he bestowes upon us as a gift. Because God has given us the gift of repentance, we now hate sin, and love the law. We desire to "Be perfect", as our Father in heaven is. Although we still reside in our sinful flesh, and sin without ceasing, we now hate the sin that is in us and make concious effort to obey the law. Included in this effort is stewardship.

For example if we have a garden rake, and we leave it in the backyard for the winter, letting it rust and rot. This is an egregious offense against God, total laziness and disrespect for the bounty that God has given us. We have completely wasted and destroyed something that was good and useful out of negligence and disrespect. But praise God that we have an advocate in Christ, who suffered for this sin on our behalf, and praise God for showing us only mercy and not imputing this sin to us, but to imputing it to Christ instead.

Without preaching Christ, there is no sense in advocating good works, such as stewardship. Everything that we do is so tainted with sin like laziness, double motives, pride, self-rightousness, idolatry, the desire for recognition, self-superiority, the hatred of those "less good" than us, covetessnoues, etc. Everything we do is so tainted with flagrantly offensive wrath-earning sin that it is wretchedly filthy to God, unless we are covered in Christ's righteousness.

This is why the all Christian teaching must revolve around Christ, the object of our faith, and not just the call to good works. If we attempt good good works that do not flow out of faith in Christ, we are just making more stench for God. The good works of Christian living flow out of continual conviction of sin, continual repentance, and continual assurance of God's pardon.

A cause or movement within the church, that does not focus on Christ produces pharisees, encouraging believers and unbelievers to feel self-righteous in their good works, potentially damning them to hell, when instead they should be called to repent. This is why Paul heavily emphasizes preaching "Christ and Him cruciified for our sins" in church.

People like me, grown when they see yet another good-works movement sweeping the churches, when so few of the church's preach anything about "Christ and Him crucified", and almost none of them preach the whole council of God (aka the Whole Bible), instead opting for catchy relevant topical sermons (like Global Warming) that quote mine a few out of context verses to support a call to good works, without any call to repent and have faith in Christ and his saving work.

[HS]

Honestly, Scripture says we are to take care of this earth and show concern for our work animals. Well, most of us don't live on the farm any longer, and our "work animals" are cars, busses, trains, buildings...

Should we not be doing what we can to lessen our trash and waste?

I do agree we need to preach the Gospel and be In season and out of season, wise as serpents and meek as doves -- and not swayed with every wind of doctrine, however.

I do my best to recycle, reduce, reuse. I pick up trash if it's lying about, and we do not use products that won't naturally decompose or be recycleable. We are energy effecient (as best as possible), and I try to ensure our clothing is not made from slave labor (sweat shops).

We always will have the poor with us, and I do my best to ensure any clothes that are excess, are pruned and only the good ones left go to help those less fortunate than I.

Should we not be (behind the scenes at the least) efficient with the other fruit of our hands?

While I find the ad kitschy and really 'out there' with the prizes and "Oh I saved more than you" kind of sound to it, I think *in principle* it really is not a bad thing.

[McPhisto]

I can't believe you're spending time discussing what another "so called community of faith" is doing?!

Shouldn't we give up these silly distractions from the Gospel and focus solely on sharing the Gospel with the rest of the world?

It's like Satan wants to keep us from sharing the Gospel by throwing all these distractions at us.

Come on soldiers! We must ignore the distractions of the enemy. We must push forward on the offense until every last soul has heard the Gospel message.

We must remain focused on the tenants of our faith:
Sola scriptura
Sola fide
Sola gratia
Solus Christus
Soli Deo gloria

All others are not worthy of our worry, time or distraction!

"But I would ye should understand, brethren, that the things which happened unto me have fallen out rather unto the furtherance of the gospel;
So that my bonds in Christ are manifest in all the palace, and in all other places;
And many of the brethren in the Lord, waxing confident by my bonds, are much more bold to speak the word without fear.
Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will:
The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds:
But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel.
What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice."

[S McKee]

@Room2blog
Being uneducated is nothing you should proudly wear as a badge. To paraphrase Kant: Dare to think.

Kant! Wow! I bet you've been waiting a long time for the opportunity to throw that one out. Anyway, discerning the subtleties of humor and sarcasm are obviously not one of your strong points. In the immortal words of Sergeant Hulka "Lighten up Francis"

[Cathryn]

OK ya all,
What's wrong with the stewardship aspect here? Let's see.... ummmm NOTHING...
If your strictly speaking of spreading the Gospel - it does require resources, time and energy fit into that category- right? So why not look into saving resources or appropriating them better. There are "christian fund raisers" all over this planet- why can't this be put in light of that. WHAT IF...... just WHAT IF..... by reducing the amount of energy dispensed at any given church service by just 25% and calculate that in a dollar amount of savings.... wouldn't that be a "cool" way (pardon the pun)- of taking that savings in dollar form and giving it to a specific missions organization? Say by saving 50 bucks a month - just on electric - by increasing our awareness to turning OFF lights, condensing 2 smaller services into one bigger one, ect.. ect... ect... in a 3 month time, 150 bucks could go to a missions project, help with a VISA, or assist with a family in need food bill! YES, God is the one with "cattle on a thousand hills" HE is our ultimate resource, but HE did choose to come in human form and continues to use human form to share His love ... right? Why can't we broaden our awareness? God is the God of creation and creativity, can't we use the imparted supernatural creativity to partner with His creation to do things better, cleaner, with more awareness, more compassion, more understanding and more love... I don't get ya'all's gripe on this one..
Now i'm gonna go check if all the lights are out in rooms we are not using at the moment... every penny counts...... (ref widow's mite)
Hope ya all have an awesome Christmas and love in a big way!
shalom,
cathryn

[Bill the Deacon]

So, let me get this straight...the majority of you will let Luther and a few reformers decide for you a theological "sola" agenda (the emergent church of Luther's day) but you won't open your eyes (or can't) to see what the spirit of God is doing in the world today.

You are basically the same people who burnt the reformers and ana-baptists at the stake and now you're high jacking their theology hundreds of years later and calling it normative and orthodox christianity. Meanwhile, we have thousands of Christians following God's spirit to do church in a new way and you all act as if this is the first time in church history God has decided to lead people in a new direction. I'm glad it is illegal to burn your neighbor at the stake in this country or from the sounds of it you all would be happy to establish a new-Massachusetts bay colony.

You are taking reformation theology (which was way more radical for the time than saying God cares about creation beyond its eschatological significance) and you are staking your entire theological worldview on it. Wow.

[servant]

i wonder if those prizes are recyclable? were they wood cut down from the rainforest? were they nonbiodegradeable plastic? awareness to take care of God's creation is a good thing, but this preacher is going about it all wrong. We should not be baited to do what is right. Selfishness and greed has greatly attributed to the present state of Global warming/cooling from the industrial age. we have not been good stewards of this land.Congregants should be made aware, but not as a promotion, when the gospel should be preached

[beon]

Bill Said:
---------------------------------------------------------------
So, let me get this straight...the majority of you will let Luther and a few reformers decide for you a theological "sola" agenda (the emergent church of Luther's day) but you won't open your eyes (or can't) to see what the spirit of God is doing in the world today.
---------------------------------------------------------------

Bill, The spirit of God is doing the same thing today that it did in all the ages. Claiming the redeemed by regenerating their hearts and giving them faith in God's promise of redemption, achieved in the Messiah, Jesus Christ. The gates of hell (aka the Emergent Church) will not prevail against it. Paul said that if an angel from heaven or even himself, should come to the Church and preach a gospel different from the one that Paul preached, that they should be an anathama, forever accursed to hell.

The gospel the that Paul preached was not the incomprehensible mess that emergents pretend it is. It is exceedingly clear, laid out in the beginning of most of Paul's letters:

We are sinners, by nature children of wrath. We are justly owed God's eternal judgement and condemnation. Christ bore that judgement for us, as a willing sacrifice, and God declares us to be righteous on the basis of Christ good works. We now appear Holy and blameless in God's sight on the basis of Christ's merit.

This is the gospel. As the emergent church attempts to use the NPP to subvert the gospel into a unitarian treatise against tribalism. The faithful won't shy from letting these preachers know they are accursed. The emergents aren't doing this because God is leading the church to a new era (perhaps the great apostasy), but because their understanding is darkened that the gospel is incomprehensible and irrelevant to them. (And by the way I am not a lutheran). Luther, like many in church history was another lonely voice insisting we honor God's word and what it teaches. Yes, it was revolutionary to insist that the scripture should be preached, and obeyed. And it is even revolutionary today, as it is exceedingly difficult to find a church that preaches God's word. 1 Billion Bibles in the U.S. that nobody reads or understands because nobody hears it preached. But don't expect me to believe that the emergence is anything of God. Just wait a few years and you'll find yourselves praying to the Dalai Lama, because everybody worships (or venerates) the same God.

[wilson]

Yes we are called to be stewards and look after God's creation. However environmentalism, specifically the kind that stems from a Gaian/Mother Earth belief as it seems to when you read some of the stuff put out by the United Nations and their people, is not something we as Christians should be too passionate about.

2 Peter 3: 11 Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12 as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. 13 But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness.

We can be better stewards for sure, we can save heaps of money and use it for more useful things, but ultimately if we read passages like 2 Peter 3 where it says the world and its elements will be dissolved we get a little more perspective on a) loving our Earth like it's some kind of "organism" - not a biblical concept anyway - and b) the urgency of gospel preaching, and living lives of holiness and godliness.

And if global warming is part of God's judgement on the Earth then there isn't a whole lot you can do to stop it anyway.
Certainly Revelation indicates that God will judge those who destroy His creation so there is a place for being environmentally sensitive :-) however when Christians are more passionate about spreading the environment message (or any other message) than the gospel, then you have a problem.

You are not going to be lying on your death bed thinking "i wish i cared for the environment more".