Guts Church's Nightmare Haunted House "Outreach"

This one speaks for itself.

Comments

[Paul Latour]

There are no appropriate words! This is, by far, the worst I have ever seen. I am so ANGRY! So angry!

It's time they "took hallowe'en back from the devil"???
WE NEVER HAD IT IN THE FIRST PLACE, DUMMY! IT'S BEEN HIS SINCE DAY ONE!!!

Oh, if this were in my town....

[Jenn]

He never said they are taking it BACK, he said they are taking it AWAY. We don't want to be unfair and put words in the guy's mouth...

I think it is good to show reality... school shootings and terrorism are real... If it is done in a way that shows the pure depravity of man, and how life is uncertain, and how knowing God through Christ is a must, it would be great. It would be great to show them that, through the beauty of the Gospel, this life is a temporary one... Depending on how it's done, it could be a great concept...

[Jenn]

AND if that guy is a believer, by calling him a dummy, you're essentially calling him a fool... which Matthew speaks against... we must be careful to still season our speech w/grace...

[Tina]

They should have a room showing Obama as president. Now that would be scary!

[Lane Chaplin]

I wonder if they have a confessional church as one exhibit and a dictionary with definite terms at another. It seems like if they were wanting to scare their own folk, they would bring out all the stops.

[Ratt]

Why don't we just um... stop with the whole co-opting pagan holidays bit?

While we're at it, give up Easter (wow, we didn't even try with that one, it's the name of a Pagan fertility-goddess) and "Christ"mass (almost all of the "traditions" are from pagan religions) and try observing the christian aspects of these holidays without all of the pagan overtones. Just an idea.

Maybe then we'll have time to observe the one important christian holiday that so many forget... Pentecost, i.e. the birth of the Church (body of Christ) the coming of the Holy Spirit, and the enpowerment by God of his children to go forth and spread the Word.

All-Hallows Eve, or Samwein, are none of our buisness, and by acnowledging them (observing Holloween) we only continue to go down the path of lying to ourselves by observing pagan rites in direct opposition to the Word of God.

P.S. When is this "Museum of Idolatry" going to birng up the Nicolaitan power structure of the modern Church?

[formerphilosopher]

I don't care what people say about the message or the concept or the purpose or taking Halloween away from the devil...this is just gratuitous violence disguised as a Christian message. Designed to make people have emotional responses and reactions. How is this spreading the Gospel of Christ? It's just another publicity stunt. So sick.

[pastorharold]

Were they scared into Heaven?
Or...
Was the Hell scared out of them?
There is a big difference.

[Lavrai]

Um... so, what IS the message? All I get from the video is that they scare the heck out of people by re-creating actual traumatic and devastating events... and then pray w/ people?

Huh? What's that have to do with the Gospel? This is silly.

[Joshua]

I would like to know why the churches in Tulsa metro area dont speak out on Guts Church and its antics

[pastorharold]

AMEN! JOSH, Tulsa seems to have more of this kind of junk per person than any other mid-size city.

[bghtnpd4]

To answer Joshua, we do every chance (like here) that we get! Being from Tulsa I know enough about this pastor to know he is NOT ok. We get to see first hand all of his expensive cars,motorcycles and his family's Prada clothes. It's a disgusting diplay of fleecing his followers, right up there with the Roberts' and the Hagin's. We have more than our fair share of WOF, name-it-claim-it prosperity gospel false teachers here in Tulsa and are not ONE BIT happy about it!!!! How's that for speaking out, Joshua? :)

[Jamison]

Anyone out there with a stereotypical Evangelical past remember "Judgment House"? Not quite the same thing since it wasn't a house of horrors, but there was a trip through hell included in the story line. You know, HELL - really hot, fiery images, screams of agony - the full meal deal. I'm sure Guts is just trying to do the same thing we were, right? "Let's scare the hell out of those people so they'll fear the fire and ask Jesus to come into their hearts!" At least we followed up with a heaven scene where we showed them American Jesus with long, flowing hair, fair complexion, and a big bear hug for us all. Oh, wait...

Anyway, I don't think I'll be visiting Guts' haunted house. I also don't think I'd participate in Judgment House again, if only for fear of ending up in the Museum of Idolatry!

[Frank]

...guys remember when Halloween meant the night before All Saints Day....didnt think so.
Maybe that's how we can "take it back", considering it was ours to begin with.

So happy night-before-all-saints-day y'all.

[walksbyf8h]

Merciful heavens. That was foul.

[Kimmo Pollari]

You guys are idiots. Thousands of people have got saved at the Nightmare.. The last room is Jesus on th cross abd right after that each person is directed to talk with a Christian counselor one on one and prayed for...

So, get your "discernment" ministry lined up with the Spirit of God and not your own opinions and stuck-in-a-rut-ways and let people reach out to people...

[pastorharold]

Preachers proclaim the Gospel (Rom 10:13-15 I Cor 1:21) This does not mean a reverend or pastor. They are the people who tell others the truth about salvation. ie:repentance toward God, faith in Christ

Pagans scare people, and say "do you want this to happen to you?". We all would would say "NO!". Then comes the prayer "you need to ask God to save you". Every one wants to go to Heaven and nobody wants to go to Hell.
The 15th year of thousands being saved at the Nightmare in Tulsa and still no change in the spiritual climate in this city!!!???

[Keith]

"Thousands of people have got (sic) saved at the Nightmare..." I am from the Tulsa area and I highly doubt it. Someone being "prayed for" isn't the Gospel and doesn't constitute salvation.

[Barbara]

Kimmo,

While there are a number of entries here that I don't necessarily agree with, and while there are a number of folks here who don't necessarily agree with each other on every little thing, such entries as these are not based on individual opinion but rather on Scripture. A "whatever works" and "whatever feels good whether or not it is on God's terms" approach not only fails in the long term, the example of Cain's rejected sacrifice in Genesis and then Aaron and the Golden Calf in Exodus are ample warning of what the outcome of such things will be.

Secondly, Jesus tells us in Matthew 5:22 that anyone who calls his brother "Raca" (translated as "you fool" or, possibly, "you idiot") is in danger of hellfire. So do be careful. You may notice too that another commenter in this thread was similarly reminded.

Thirdly, many folks can attest to the fact that a simple prayer does not necessarily a new birth make. There is much, much more than that. The real Gospel isn't sold with pyrotechnics and latex makeup and it surely isn't won in a day. The real Gospel is a rope tossed out to the drowning man, bringing him in safely from the storm. It comes with its own power, which does not need man's techniques to spice it up - not when Christ is actively working, opening their hearts, drawing them near. Christ's parable of the sower (found in Matthew, Mark, and Luke) speaks to that - the seed that lands on the rock springs up quickly because there is no depth of earth. No, such "conversions" will show themselves to be true or not in time, because as Christ Himself said repeatedly, "you will know them by their fruits."

The wording of your entry sounds as if it may have been written in the flesh rather than in the Spirit. We can all be prone to such weaknesses at times, even Paul was (as he lamented in Romans 7), but such instances are always a good reminder to check ourselves. Please, I pray, use Paul's exhortation in 2 Corinthians 13:5, as all who consider ourselves to be in Christ are called to do, and prayerfully examine yourself according to Scripture. 1 John was written by John just so we could know for sure wheter we are indeed in the faith or have been deceived by a false assurance by being sold to a watered-down or even completely false "gospel". The real thing is much too beautiful to miss. My prayers go with you.

[kali]

Hard to judge what this is like until you've been there. Apart from the "easy-believism" of the counseling, I thought it was a decent event. I went about 7 years ago when I was in Tulsa.

[keanon o'keefe]

Kimmo,
just because someone goes down and prays with someone after their "experience" doesn't mean they are saved.

Joel Osteen has thousands come down to his alter but i have my doubts on if a prosperity message saves, you cant accept the gospel without a FULL understanding of it...

you can't be scared into the arms of Christ, it takes a mental and spiritual decision, not just an emotional outburst of guilt that you receive from spooky lights and a hell fire message.

its about the reality of the gospel, not the interior guilt we as humans all have.

[ty]

Kimmo Pollari,

Showing people slasher-type scenes is a good idea?
Scaring them into making emotional decisions won't get them anywhere near Heaven. What's after that? Slasher Church? Sorry, "Slasher Blood and Guts Real Tree of Life Fellowship?" Oh, wait...that's just expanding the real name.
You should think a long time before callig people idiots. Are you calling the curator, the people who comment, or everyone idiots? Were you also scared into making an emotional "decision" too?
And the "rut" you're talking about? It's called "the Bible." You should try it sometime.

[Dor]

pastorharold- "The 15th year of thousands being saved at the Nightmare in Tulsa and still no change in the spiritual climate in this city!!!???"
maybe sunday school attendance has grown

[formerphilosopher]

I am getting so saddened and so tired of those who feel that the Bible alone is not enough to convince non-believers to reach out for salvation. God's Word-Jesus Christ--is the way to gain REAL, TRUE and STEADFAST salvation. Not exciting stage-shows and emotional theater productions--not even worship concerts. Those things may initially spark interest, but unless we receive the WORD (see the Gospel of John)we have nothing to cling to when the storm comes, and our houses built on sand will fall to the ground.
I love the Lord. That's why I was saved. I love Him with all my heart.
THAT is what strikes Holy fear in me. Not scenes of school shootings and natural disasters.

[Denise]

Gutschurch IS the nightmare.

[Denise]

Kimmo:

Eph 4:17 Now this I say and testify in the Lord, that you must no longer walk as the Gentiles do, in the futility of their minds.
Eph 4:18 They are darkened in their understanding, alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, due to their hardness of heart.
Eph 4:19 They have become callous and have given themselves up to sensuality, greedy to practice every kind of impurity.
Eph 4:20 But THAT IS NOT THE WAY YOU LEARNED CHRIST!--
Eph 4:21 assuming that you have heard about him and were taught in him, as the truth is in Jesus,
Eph 4:22 to put off your old self, which belongs to your former manner of life and is corrupt through deceitful desires,

God says it is the Gospel is the power of God unto salvation...not this Nightmare garbage. HIS ways aren't your ways.

[pastorharold]

Dor,

The other cheek is now available. It seems you enjoy striking it.

[Rhology]

Lots of stuff that Guts does is fairly bad, but this HellHouse thing is... interesting.
But let's not leave it out - Jesus is on the Cross at the end. They share the Gospel at the end. Could be a LOT worse. I kinda dig this project in a few ways.

[Aaron]

Frank- All saints day began as a catholic holiday, not the biblical gospel. So to say that we are bringing hallowing back to all saints day is just as bad.

[Dor]

pastorharold- there are many rosey cheeks here that has been caused by your hand. Maybe you should think a little before you talk. Remember quick to listen,slow to speak, slow to anger.

[Paul Latour]

I, hereby, recant on using the word "dummy" (see top of comments) in my intitial response to this horrific means of evangelism and am sorry for misquoting the above said person. I just lost it and wrote in a kneejerk reaction to what I had seen. I am no less angry, for there is such a thing as righteous anger and am no less sickened by what I saw. But I do take back the "raca" part of my rant. I will pray for those responsible for this and all who are a part of it. It is of the devil and no other.

[Denise]

formerphilosopher---exactly; Scripture is not enough for most professing Christians, let alone the skeptics. Actually, it seems many professing Christians ARE skeptical of the true power of the Word. The Narrow Road is hard and few that find it....the circle of true, biblical Christianity is far smaller than we know and it is shrinking all the time (eg. Ray Boltz).

I wonder how many professing Christians even know what the Gospel even is?

[Dale Gehris]

So all these kids who "accepted" (I use that term lightly) Christ after these performances are magically Christian now? WOW! What happened to sharing the plain truth of the Gospel and allowing them to use reason and a sound mind to "count the cost"? What has this church done differently than a cult who brainwashes and uses fear to intimidate young people into becoming converts? Good grief! Outrageous!

[PLW]

I think the haunted house is a pretty cool idea (one of the 10% of postings I don't think is worthy of this website).... The Guts sermon may be another story.

[ty]

It seems like the seeker-sensitive fellowships all have something in common: to get people in a highly emotional state of mind. In this instance, scared.
Romans 5:8 "Be sober, be vigilant, because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour." I think the word "sober" here means that we should be thinking clearly all the time ALONG WITH not abusing drugs and/or alcohol. Don't let emotions contol you like a drug. Especially not with a critical subject that you would have to soberly and clearly understand.
We all know that people can't think clearly when emotions are high. "Churches" like this use excitement, music, and countless stunts to get people's adrenaline pumping or to get them in a trance-like state. This makes people pliable and very open to suggestion. The problem is that people are not exactly responsible for their actions and decisions in these hightly emotional states. I'm sure many of you have seen the YouTube videos of people barking like dogs, shaking, laughing uncontrollably, etc., and saying they're not drunk, they're having some sort of "experience" with the Holy Spirit. I'd say it was a spirit all right, but not the Holy Spirit.
Also, if "thousands" have been saved in the Tulsa area every year with this house of horrors, wouldn't we be hearing about the fruit that these thousands would obviously be producing in their city? Yes, Dor, I read your comment. But the question remains.

[Christy]

While I don't think we can be scared into salvation, fear can bring self-examination. "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God" apparently caused fear and upset in Edwards' congregation, causing many to examine themselves as the bible tells us to do.

As far as this post is concerned, it doesn't look any different from "Judgement Houses" or "Revelation Walks" that are pretty common around here.

[Knight]

Fear can be a powerful tool to bring someone to repentance. However, the fear has to be of the right thing. When Edwards preached "Sinners..." he did so from the perspective that fallen man should fear God as the only one who can destroy both body and soul.

It is one thing to preach about the depravity of man and the holiness of God to bring sinners to repentance. It is quite another to frighten people with earthly terror and coerce them into believing.

Sinners need not fear terrorists, bullies, and other earthly evils. Fear the Lord God with whom you stand as an enemy. Repent and embrace the redemption of Christ offered freely by His blood on the cross of Calvary.

[A.]

I went last night with teenage cousins who had free tickets and I am strongly against the whole thing.

Not only did I think it was a poor scare tactic, but I think they took the graphic parts too far and there was not much of a story line, unlike some justice houses I have been to. I know nightmare is what it is supposed to be, but I think they are going about it all wrong. Also, the majority of the staff I encountered were not very helpful.

I have epilepsy (controlled by meds but I try to be cautious) so when we first got there I was trying to find out if there were strobe lights, and if so for how long and how many. I asked 7 people and pointed out why I needed to know. 6 of those 7 told me that it was a surprise, or winked and said that they didn't know. When I finally got to the door I was told they did indeed, but by then the security was shoving us in though I had alerted him that I had epilepsy . I had a seizure in the first room, just inches from the door and though the seizure was witnessed and aknowledged by security, the kept me in there and drug me through all the rooms although they security guy standing by me could have escorted me out. To make it worse while I was seizing in the first rom I was screamed at by a demon dude who was just inches from my face. Double scary.

After two more seizures in other rroms we finally got out all but two people I talked to were rude. One lady did pray with me and the first girl I saw coming out was nice, but the rest were condescending. My "grievance" which I was asked to fill out was just my name taken on a napkin by a gruff lady.

I take some fault for attending at all, but the way it was handled and that there was no signage to warn or helpful staff is a liability to them as well as being a big turn off to any people who might have been interested in guts before.

So, beware, if you have any kind of chance of seizures AT ALL please don't enter. The strobes/fog/screaming/running/shaking loors/interaction can be sensory overload for any person. There isn't a mention of epilepsy on the waiver among the medical conditions that might be affected, so be cautious.

By the way, during one time when I was reporting it, I was told that they had the same issue with some people having seizures last year. You would think that they would have taken a hint and posted warnings on the waiver or signs.

This is too long. Thanks for reading.

[Christy]

Hi Knight. I see your point, but I thought that judgement houses and the like were trying to teach that we should fear God, who can destroy body and soul in hell. The idea is not to frighten with death (although the graphic nature of the death portrayals are totally unnecessary, in my mind), but to show what comes after death to believers and non-believers. The question really must be, did they give a clear true presentation of the true gospel, or did they present a sugar-coated, easy-believism version of it? If a true one, then I don't really see a problem with this. If a candy one, then they should be shut down.

[Knight]

Cristy,

You are correct. I do not know what kind of message was presented at this function nor am I likely to find out as I do not live anywhere near there.

I believe it to be dangerous to solicit conversions in this manner. People may be scared and shocked but their conversion will likely have more to do with the emotional state they are in rather than any true repentance from sin and turning to Christ in faith.

Are people recieving the true Gospel? I don't know. The video does not suggest it. I would be interested in seeing any transcript someone may have as to the message that is being presented to people...

[Lindsey=]]]

So I i haven't seen the nightmare, yet but iam going.
I think they should show the BOTH exact sides of it and go through
the both paths even know its nightmare i TOTTALLY think they should just show both sides!
And yeah that would be VERY freaky if obama got president EVERYONE plz!!! PRAY!!! that he does not make it in the house!

[Shma]

A,

I am so sorry to hear of your experience! I pray that you haven't had more serious problems as a result of your seizures! I am very suprised that your medical needs weren't taken seriously!! Seizures are not to be taken lightly or dismissed!! I know people with seizure disorders and am amazed that when you had a seizure some kind of medical help wasn't called. What kind of witness could that possibly be???

[Jim Sarver]

Sadly, this stuff is pretty much par for the course here in Tulsa. GutsChurch and its NightMare are in business to make money and they make lots of it. I'm sure their improperly taught volunteers are convinced they are helping people though.
I drive by 'The Chapel of Chitlins' (Tabernacle of Tripe?) every day and see the long lines for NightMare at 8 bucks a whack. Their website states that they expose the top killers among young people and present Christ as the answer to them. They are laughing all the way to the bank while their 'all Law, no Gospel' approach kills the souls of those they profess to want to help. Lord have mercy!

[Karen B]

A, I am sorry for your experience and I hope you are feeling better after your episodes the other night. That is awful - reprehensible - that GUTS allowed something like that to happen.

I think you ought to write a letter of complaint to them, instead of just leaving your name. I'm not confident anything will be done, but it may give them a little more to think about that way. I also wonder if you might write a letter to the editor (Tulsa World) in order to warn others that epileptics should not enter and that the warnings given by GUTS are misleading and inadequate, especially the omission of epilepsy on the medical waiver form. I know that sounds like a lot of work for you but if you feel you can do it, it might help someone else. I think there might be a way to email the editor of the TW. I haven't lived in Tulsa for some time so I don't know if there are other newspapers now that could be contacted.

[Cary]

Get a LIFE!!! With the time you (ignorant) people have spent on your "holier than thou" JUDGEMENT of Guts and Nightmare, maybe you could try to keep someone from going to hell (maybe even yourselves). If even one person comes to the saving knowledge of Jesus because they (like me) were SCARED and thought they might die and spend eternity in hell..... I believe that WE have done a good thing (read your Bible). For years now, I have seen first hand the looks of fear on peoples faces as they go through the Nightmare and realize that they might spend eternity in hell. Some are almost begging for someone to lead them in prayer and get their life on the right track! Again, maybe you could try leading someone to Jesus with your weak, condemning, sappy and sorry "faith"...GOOD LUCK ! I spent most of my life staying away from churches just because of "christians" like you. I can assure you that Guts' Pastor is a man after God's own heart. If he has nice things...well GOOD FOR HIM! Who wants to follow a broke, sick, judgemental "christian" on the road they're on??? Not me!

[Curtis]

Judgement is mine, sayeth the Lord. Who are we to speak about what is in a man's heart? If one crosses into heaven, was it worth it? Emotion can be an overpowering experience that can cloud judgement. I often doubted my salvation to an emotional experience. I know now, without emotion, the day I asked God into my heart. Emotional, Yes. Or maybe it was the knowledge of "I don't have the ability to control my life without Him." True salvation is not so difficult. Will we know if this NIGHTMARE is "good"? When one person looks back on this, and says with a clear mind "That was the day that God changed my life" who will argue with that? I'm not rich, I don't go to church on a regular basis, I don't go to gut's church. God's blessings, who can comprehend? If God's will was to bless the family who started this church, so be it. Untill we let God deal with the details, we will digress in our relationship with Him. I don't plan on going to this NIGHTMARE. I will not discount the potential message to my future friend in heaven, by the message recieved at this event.

[Curtis]

Vengance is mine, Sayeth the Lord. Judge not, lest ye yourself be Judged. I don't want to misquote the Bible.

[Knight]

Cary & Curtis,

Since you object to people being discerning regarding this particular event please provide a Scriptural exaample of Jesus or the apostles using earthly fear to convert people into the kingdom of God.

[Cary]

Again, maybe you could actually read your Bible?!? I don't know that Jesus came right out and said "scare the hell out of them" but once again I will say.... if even one person comes to the saving knowledge of Jesus because of this outreach then it is A GOOD THING!!! If I took someone who wasn't saved (maybe some of you on here) to the bowling alley with me and we spend a few hours together. Maybe something you see or hear makes you decide to get your life right, accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior. That would be a good thing, right? I'm pretty sure there are NO scriptures either for OR against me taking you bowling. But maybe then you could spend some time reaching out to people who need Jesus (in whatever way you are good at) and less time in your own little pitiful world of judgement, critisism and weak theological debate. And by the way, in the book of Jude, The Word talks about saving some by fear (not that I really need to explain to you). Well, gotta go to NM and do my part to help possibly save eeven a few.

[Concerned with everyone]

Wow, there sure is alot of judgmental people on this page. Who is the one that is suppose to judge?