Relevant Church Stunt Gone Bad

Beware, attending a relevant, man-centered church could be dangerous and bad for your health. Note: these types of accidents don't happen in churches that are reverent and focus on making disciples through the preaching of God's Word rather than trying to fill seats through stupid and dangerous stunts.

In House Dirtbike Crash

Comments

[Barbara]

Thank you for that demonstration of exactly what is so wrong with these things. Where God is the center instead of man, you don't have a circus.

[chadm]

What research was done to make this conclusion? I see no name of the church or link to research it ourselves. This event looked like some youth event. If you notice all the stuff on stage and all the young people. Doesn't any of your churches do VBS (Power Lab or Avalance Ranch)? Aren't those VBS programs being relevant to our children? I'm not saying it was wise to do such a dangerous stunt in church, but was that grounds for judging the preaching of this church when a sermon wasn't heard? How do you guys so easily slander our brothers on so little evidence of what goes on in these churches. Shame on you Chris........<'}}}><

[Kyle]

You seem to be jumping to conclusions here Curator.

Bad idea here? Yes!
Preaching the Word of God? Not enough information to know.
"Man-Centered Church"? Not enough information to know.
Stupid idea? Yes!

What exactly is your motive for posting this? Or have you attended this church so that you can attest to this as being the truth?

[donna]

I read about this in the San Francisco Chronicle... but seeing the video gives graphic details that the article didnt( a picture is worth a thousand words, right?). Those 2 people standing near the table where the motorbike crashed? Goodness it only because of God they were not maimed or killed. This is what happens when sermons are anthrocentric and not Christ-centric.

[Barb]

No, Donna, this is what happens when people play with dirtbikes indoors.

[Barbara]

"It a Disciple Now Weekend and youth pastor, David Few rides a motorcycle into the auditorium to deliver something to the stage. All is fine until the bike gets out from under him as he exits." From here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZRoOx5L0DE .

Or, how 'bout this one? It's a trend, you know:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2008/07/21/national/a155829D42.DTL

(07-21) 17:30 PDT Kokomo, Ind. (AP) --

A pastor brought out a dirt bike during a church service to demonstrate the concept of unity. Now he's demonstrating the concept of healing.

Jeff Harlow, the senior pastor at Crossroads Community Church, broke his wrist when he lost control of the motorcycle at the start of Sunday's second service, driving off a 5-foot platform and into the vacant first row of seats. He underwent surgery on the wrist Monday.

"Jeff has already laughed a lot, so he's OK. I think his pride was bruised," said his wife, Becky.

Becky Harlow said her husband had recently attended a motorcycle race in Buchanan, Mich.

"He had this idea that he would bring this bike out onstage and show people how the rider would become one with the bike," she told the Kokomo Tribune. "He was going to just sit on it and drive it out. He was just walking the dirt bike out onstage and somehow it got away from him. It was not intended."

No one else was hurt.

Jeff Harlow had performed the demonstration at earlier services Saturday night and Sunday morning without incident.

********

Becoming one with the bike, in a sermon on unity? Yep, that's biblical. Got to be in there ...somewhere...lessee here....or was that "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance"? sorry, wrong "bible".

********

[Jimmy]

This is a total disrespect for the house of God, period!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[chadm]

Barbara- Are you saying that the results you found go with the video Chris posted? The story you shared doesn't go with the video shown. Where is the proof that this church is preaching a relevant, man centered message?

[Rick]

"....He would bring this bike out onstage and show how the rider would become one with the bike."
There's your evidence of what the sermon was. "Becoming one" with anything is usually (not always) a new age belief as Barbara pointed out above. "Becomming one" with a bike (inanimate object) is not the same as becomming one with a spouse. It's a poor example for a bad idea that went extremely wrong.
Is the Bible so out-of-date and people so mentally slow that no one can understand anything it says without extreme and sometimes dangerous examples anymore? This probably made the teens upset instead of knowing what God wants for their lives.
Does everyone have to be shocked or entertained to learn what Jesus Christ did for us? Maybe this pastor thinks it's time to tell God that He didn't provide enough entertainment for the people of "modern" times.

[Sylvia]

Waddaya take me for, a marooon?!?!

I've read about people who are reverent, and focus on making disciples through the preaching of God's Word. Do you have any idea what happened to the apostles? A lot more than a broken table and a bunged-up dirtbike, I'll tell you that much.

You think having a motorcycle at a Bible study in California or Indiana is dangerous? Try having a Bible at a Bible study ib China! I'll show you dangerous!

[Shma]

For the record I think Chris is trying to get the true Word of God out & trying to keep people from being led astray.

[chadm]

Rick- you may want to read Barbaras post again and view the video again. The story Barbara tells is NOT the story thats on the video.

[RELEVANT]

WANNA GET AWAY?

[Barbara]

Chadm, you might want to read my comment again - beginning with the first four lines?

[Christy]

For clarification, Barbara, the first part is a headline regarding the video posted above, and the second part is a news story about an incident similar to the video posted above, right?

I've seen people use this type of stuff at youth events in large arenas, but I've never seen it used during a regular church service. Seems like a bad idea, if nothing else than for safety reasons.

[frankie]

i personally know david few. he currently works for a church in charlotte. although, this was a bad idea, it was not during a typical church service, but rather a rally for youth. he actually messed his knee up pretty bad with this stunt. david is truly a man of God and i feel we do need to be careful about what we say about our brothers.

[chadm]

Thanks for spreading some TRUTH to this video. I could tell it was a youth event by the youth in the service. What confused me was Chris and Barbaras' take on it. Its nice to hear of a 1st hand account of the character of a brother many have so unjustly slandered. I pray for a quick recovery for David and protection from the negative words that were spoken against him.

[Barbara]

Yes Christy, the first part of my comment does reference the incident above, the rest goes to another motorcycle-in-church accident. A trend, apparently? As line 4 of my comment led in to the article.

You're right about the bad idea part, both out of safety and out of respect for the house of God.

*****

That said, I won't be reading anymore comments for awhile since there are a couple of very angry folks who seem to enjoy making vicious attacks with everyone they don't agree with and then justify themselves by accusing the curator and all they don't agree with of doing the same thing (two wrongs don't make a right) - and on every single post. Wow. Dissention is one thing, but it's gotten to the point of at least looking more like a defensive posture gone on the offense. It's as if they have a singular purpose, to argue with anyone who holds to a conviction. That's the definition of a "troll" and, well...life is too short, my God is too precious and so are my energies.

Curator, I appreciate what you have here, and I'm just a single reader who simply wanted to say that I don't always agree with you, but this is America and I don't have to, and it's your site and I, for one, respect that. It is still edifying and food for thought particularly when there is a respectful debate going on in the comments, but the spewed hatred and anger on both sides in the name of Christ is getting to be hard to muddle through,so I'll stick with your exhibits and ignore the comments for awhile. I will continue to visit and quietly appreciate what you're doing, which is that of defending the sanctity of the true Gospel and the sovereignty of God against worldly influences. Thank you, and God bless.

[Kairos]

It doesn't make a wink of difference if this was in a youth gathering or a church service for adults. I wouldn't want my daughter being involved with a church that would endanger her life with a stunt like this in church. Where is the reverence for God's word and His Holy house?

[frankie]

I have one question? When did the church become so holy? It is a building, right? I mean, we are the temple now, correct? A lot of people on this site seem to point out this is God's house. No it isnt. This is New Testament time. It is a building that the church goes to. We need to be careful. The only thing that deserves our worship is God.

Just saying.

[Elephantschild]

I mean, we are the temple now, correct? A lot of people on this site seem to point out this is God's house. No, it isn't. This is New Testament time. It is a building that the church goes to.

True, but there's something to be said for proper decorum and order. (Not to mention basic safety!) By your reasoning, there is no difference between holding church in the public restrooms at the downtown train station or choosing instead to meet at a rented hotel conference room.

We, as the Church, the Bride of Christ, proclaim to the world exactly what we think of our Bridgroom, Christ, when we gather for worship. Would you wear a bathing suit and cut off jeans to your sister's wedding simply because it's hot outside? If you did that, wouldn't people think that you didn't think very highly of your sister or of the celebration of her wedding?

I see driving a motorcycle into a building full of people as exactly the same sort of "Casual Friday" attitude. It is an abuse of Christian freedom, not an exercise of the same. Others disagree, obviously.

[Barb]

I would wear a bathing suit and cut-off jeans to my sister's wedding if I thought she didn't honestly care what I wore . . . and I don't think God honestly cares what we wear to church. It's what's in our hearts that matters.

This stunt of David Few's wasn't the brightest idea ever, but not because it's unthinkable that a good Christian illustration could be made by riding a dirtbike; rather, because vehicular stunts are better off performed outdoors. I hope Pastor Few keeps coming up with creative ideas to keep the youth interested and involved, but perhaps with a little more emphasis on safety next time! ;-)

[Kairos]

Barb, for the first time agree with something that you said. You stated, "It's what's in our hearts that matters." I couldn't agree more with you. So let's see what the Bible says is in our hearts.

"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it?" - Jer. 17:9

"for the intention of man’s heart is evil from his youth." - Genesis 8:21

In other words, we're all dirty rotten sinners through and through. We don't need relevant self help messages we need Christ crucified for our sins.

[frankie]

Kairos,

Please tell me what was preached at this rally? Apparently you were there since you seem to feel it was a self help message. If you could give me the verses and the context in which they were used, if you are not able keep your evil intentions to themselves...your words.

Elephantschild,

Again, we are the church, so you are right in how we worship says a lot. If we meet in a restroom, that would be awesome. God is everywhere...even in the restroom. I should be woshipping God all the time, therefore at times I am worshipping Him in a restroom.

About wearing the cut-off jeans and bathing suit? Not at the same time :) I want you to think. What if the wedding was at the beach? Are you still wearing the suit and tie? Do you care less about your sister? Does it matter what other people think? I just went to a wedding where the father of the bride wore a hat as he walked her down the aisle. Did he love her less than you love your child? I am not condemning you, I just want you to see that the outside does not matter. It is what is on the inside. And yes my inside was evil and deceitful, but when I became a christian I became a new creature...on the inside.

17Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come! 2 Corinthians 5:17

Again, the building is a building and nothing more.

Frankie

[Barb]

Amen, Frankie. Amen, amen, amen.

I don't believe in self-help messages in church either. I believe in Christ crucified. There are important lessons in the Bible about lifestyle and conduct, and I don't believe it's inappropriate to preach on those subjects in church, but I'm not a fan of pure Rick Warren-type fluff that suggests that Christianity is the cure to all your worldly troubles. If you can show me how you know this pastor was preaching a self-help message, I'll agree with you that his content was not what it should have been. If he was using that dirtbike to hammer home a solid Biblical lesson, though, then good for him! And I for one am willing to give my brother in Christ the benefit of the doubt . . . when it comes to his spiritual judgment at least.

As for your passages from Jeremiah and Genesis, Kairos - are you familiar with hyperbole, a rhetorical device used repeatedly throughout the Bible? Or do you truly believe there is NOTHING good about any human being and never has been? I for one have known some folks at times to be capable of good intentions . . . yes, our righteousness may be filthy rags in the sight of God, but let's be honest here: we aren't all horrible, evil people. Many of us do the best we can; it's just that the best we can isn't good enough. And as Frankie points out, in Christ we have become a new creation, with a renewed heart. Or would you have every sermon be about hellfire and brimstone, even to the longtime devout?

[Kyle]

2 Cor. 9:7-8
(7) Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. (8) And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that in all things at all times, having all that you need, you will abound in every good work.

I think what Frankie intends to say is that God cares about our attitude when attending church, just as He is concerned with us being cheerful givers, not under compulsion or reluctance.

Is someone who goes to church in a beautiful building, but begrudgingly, better than a Chinese Christian meeting in a bathroom with the right intentions? The point is not that the heart is deceitful, we know it is, but God still wants us to serve Him with the right attitude. The bathroom Christians meeting under Chinese persecution don't need a building, they just need to gather in His name.

-Kyle

[Logan]

Some thoughts.

There are some new people popping up around here who can't understand why I (and other people) make assumptions based on the story.

I'm a realist.

Realistically, the chance of good teaching to children in a church that condones motor bike stunts inside the sanctuary is very small. It can happen, but it is a very small chance of it happening.

Rather than getting (foolishly) positive and singing in a chirpy voice, "Well, at least they might be teaching the children the Bible!". I'd much rather look at the story in context of modern American Christianity and in the context of American Christianity, this story is par for the course.

While I do realize that there are men and women in these stories who ARE saved and ARE godly, it doesn't mean that I should automatically think every man or woman portrayed in these stories as such.

Let's say that a certain high school youth group posted a video on youtube with the youth group involved in all sorts of stupid and gross things. Chugging garlic sauce, you get the picture.

If I make the discernment that due to the context of American Christianity at this time and things happening in the story, the people in this ministry are just Evangelical or Liberal (Christian) humanists and I find out that that is the case, I lose no sleep over the matter.

Since 95% of the time people behind these ministries are evangelical or liberal (Christian) humanists who have put the glory of God in eighth place and have put "saving the lost" or "themselves" in first place, only rarely do I have to worry about misjudging what is happening because of the obvious fruits.

---

i personally know david few. he currently works for a church in charlotte. although, this was a bad idea, it was not during a typical church service, but rather a rally for youth. he actually messed his knee up pretty bad with this stunt. david is truly a man of God and i feel we do need to be careful about what we say about our brothers.

Posted by: frankie | August 05, 2008 at 04:20 AM

Thanks for spreading some TRUTH to this video. I could tell it was a youth event by the youth in the service. What confused me was Chris and Barbaras' take on it. Its nice to hear of a 1st hand account of the character of a brother many have so unjustly slandered. I pray for a quick recovery for David and protection from the negative words that were spoken against him.

Posted by: chadm | August 05, 2008 at 06:18 AM

---

So, David Few, I apologize for my assumption. I hope you recover and I hope that the "negative words" challenge you to seek the glory of God rather than the souls of children. Maybe I'm being too blunt about this whole matter, but I've seen too many examples of compromised kid's ministers quick to get them to pray that stupid sinner's prayer so they can be recognized at next month's meeting for "most souls saved". I love you brother, grace and peace.

[Kyle]

Logan,

I in no way want to start an argument with you. I would like to have a genuine discussion with you, without using any destructive language in the process. I obviously don't know you, so I'm in no way attacking your character or knowledge. I don't have enough information to do that. I'm responding because your post interests me. I have questions about it.

My first question is this. Barring the safety issue, do you see anything Biblically wrong with a motorcycle in a church? If so, on what grounds do you oppose it?

With that behind, let me continue my writing as if you had no Biblical grounds against it. If that is the case, you are using the motorcycle to make a conclusion that the church is not preaching the Word of God. We both agree that the church should be feeding the flock with God's Word, not monoxide. So let me continue with your statement:

"Since 95% of the time people behind these ministries are evangelical or liberal (Christian) humanists who have put the glory of God in eighth place and have put "saving the lost" or "themselves" in first place, only rarely do I have to worry about misjudging what is happening because of the obvious fruits." (Posted by: Logan | August 06, 2008 at 12:05 PM)

I'm not attacking this. Again, I'm only breaking down your argument here. Feel free to correct me where I err.

I can only assume your percentage isn't from an actual survey, am I correct? So, since I assume this is your personal observation, how many churches have you visited to draw this conclusion? I was in a youth group once. We played basketball, Ultimate Frisbee, and launched Spam sculptures from mini catapults (not the email kind). All of these things had no bearing on whether or not my youth pastor gave a lesson from the Word of God. He was consistent in delivering God's Word. He encouraged the youth to look at the Word and actually discuss what it meant in our lives. He challenged us. We had a fantastic time learning and playing. That's only one of my experiences. I attended many other youth groups. We played the same silly games and studied the Word.

I understand that there ARE churches that exchange games or entertainment for God's Word. I have visited a couple of those churches; however, I don't think that 95% of churches that do these type of activities have neglected to preach the Word. I don't see a correlation between activities and whether or not the Word of God is being taught.

I would see a correlation between the Word of God being preached and a church's decision to remove the Bible from the building. I would see a correlation if I heard the pastor's message and he opened the Bible only once during the service. I would see a correlation if heresy were preached, like the health and wealth gospel (which is not the Gospel).

If I agreed with your 95% rule, I could grasp your point. I just don't think the percentage is that high. I think jumping to conclusions based off one video is damaging to the Body of Christ. Are we not to build each other up according to their needs?

"Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen." -Ephesians 4:29 (NASB)

The word "unwholesome" can be rendered as "worthless". What worth is found in drawing these conclusions?

I must once again note that I only wish to further discuss this topic. I don't mind challenges to my thoughts here. I don't mind if you disagree. I pray that this message finds you in the blessings of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

-Kyle

[Logan]

I'll be totally honest with you Kyle, I'm just tired.

Let me give you a little history, I grew up in small towns to large towns across the Midwest. (From populations of a few hundred to the largest town I lived in during my teenager years 50,000).

For most of my life, I was a hypocrite false convert, thankfully God had mercy on me that I did not deserve and He saved me.

So, I naively assumed when we moved to the tenth largest metropolitan city in the country, there would be plenty of good solid churches. Where there was real preaching of the word, real fellowship, real relationships, and real Christianity. (two words: very naive)

Our family has visited over thirty churches and only one of those churches was real, it was the church that we drove to an hour, one way, to go to because it was a real church with real Christians and real preaching. After over a year of going there we finally had to go church hopping nearby again because of the price of gas.

Kyle, you are right. I can't deny the truth that my attitude towards churches and youth groups is wrong. I know that I must change it and I know that only by the grace of God that I will change.

But Kyle, I'm so tired.

I'm so tired of getting up every sunday and going to another new church because the last church made everyone pray a stupid sinner's prayer or copy a "sermon" off a website.

Now, please don't think that we are church-hopping because of pet peeves. If we could find a church that is solid theologically is real we'd go to it but it's nigh impossible to find. Everyone is just playing Christianity and I know because they act the same way I acted when I wasn't saved.

I'll admit, by this point I'm ranting, but, eh.

I'm just sick of getting depressed every morning when we go to a new church and I feel like I'm sitting in a secular university listening to a professor talk about Christianity. I'm sick of seeing clothing that belongs on the red light streets not the church. I'm sick of youth groups acting like high school cliques, it's "great" to see my younger brother and sister saying hello to other "Christians" who speak three sentences and literally turn their backs on them to talk with their real friends.

There are plenty of churches with real Christians, but almost no churches with real preaching. I don't want a stupid message on how much of a winner I am. I don't want a college lecture on Romans. I don't want another stupid drama. I hunger, I thirst, for the prophet, for the man who has come from the altar of God with something that will cause me to love God more, to hate sin more, and to seek His will more.

Of course, I have not found those things. I have only found depression after listening to how open air preaching is not Christ-like, how everyone in the church is saved, and how Rick Warren is so awesome.

But, there is hope in Christ and He is who I need to get through this.

Signed,
A Survivor of Modern American Christianity

P/S: You are right Kyle, I'm trying to work on my attitude, it's hard to when you've been burned so many times, it's a good thing God is bigger than my problems.

Thank you for your post.

[Kyle]

I’m praying for you Logan, right now. Before you read this, you will probably have attended Sunday morning service. I pray that God will touch you just where you are. I pray that He would speak from His Word straight to your heart. I pray for rest in your soul that only the Lord can give. I pray that He would wipe away the damages left from meaningless religion in churches today. I ask that He give you an overwhelming sense of the power of the Holy Spirit in your life. We, as brothers in Christ, are the church the Body of Christ. If you are grieving, so am I. I refuse to let my brother lack in anything. Whatever I can do to help, please let me know.

I feel your soul longing for God’s Word. I have felt that same emptiness. The world drags us down. It is an unpleasant place to be. I hope that God brings you out of the valley quickly, into green pastures. Follow the Good Shepherd. He knows the way.

As the result of God’s prompting, I just enrolled in Bible college last month. He has laid heavy on my heart the lack of Biblical exposition in our churches today. I hope to someday stand at a pulpit and preach expository messages from God’s Word, none of this topical motivational mumbo jumbo. It scares me half to death though. I’m afraid of what I might speak in error, but I don’t see God sending me an Aaron. I must go, but I can only fill one pulpit. God needs other men to stand up for His name sake. Maybe God will also call you. Maybe God will call you to become a leader in a church, standing behind the pastor and encouraging him to preach the Word. Maybe God is calling you to lead a Bible study. Listen carefully for what He wants in your life.

I attend a church where I hear the Word of God every Sunday. I know many don’t have that, but the fact that you yearn for it, ache over not having it, and strive to find it, is a good indication to me that your heart is in the right place. We should all feel the same way.

Until you find a church, what can you do? If you own a Bible, you have God’s Word. I must say that your relationship with God never depends on anyone else preaching the Word of God to you; however, since you have the internet, you can listen to great messages online. I recommend www.insight.org from the ministry of Churck Swindoll (he is also the pastor of the church I attend)…. If you visit the archive, you can listen to broadcasts dating back to the beginning of 2005! He is an excellent expositor. You can also visit www.OnePlace.com. They have recordings of Dr. J Vernon McGee and many other great preachers, past and present.

As far as fellowship with loving Christian believers? That may be more difficult if you can’t find a good Bible based church. If you let me know the general area where you live, maybe I can help find you someone that could help? You can reach me by email on my gmail account. My name is bondslaveofchrist. With those two pieces of information you can piece together an email address … ;)

If you absolutely can’t drive to a great Bible church, and you’ve tried all the churches in your area, you can either start a home church or attend an established church and try with all your might to make an impact there. I know that it must be a struggle. I would never wish it on anyone, but I pray that the Lord will guide you.

-Kyle

[chadm]

Logan- maybe God is trying to show you that you need to find a place where you can settle in and be used by Him to help change things. I have been involved in a church here for seven years. The seeker movement moved in and I tried countless times in sharing my concerns with my pastor. This got nowhere, because mans plans didn't have God in them. We are going to another church now. Are they perfect? NO Is every message exactly like I would like to hear it? NO Is this a place that needs to grow like the rest of us? YES Can I make an attempt to get to know people and share some revelation insights to help them? YES You see, the body of Christ needs each other. Some of these bodies are fat and lazy. Or maybe they are crippled. What it sounds like to me is that you are looking for the perfect body thats in shape. Its a process in getting in shape. Maybe if you would let God use you to help train the body, He would....

[Sean Payne]

What a terrible "church." No wonder the heathens blaspheme God.

[Jonathan Yu]

The Bible clearly states that everything in the Church should be done in decency and order in 1 Corinthians 14:26-40. You can go to www.justbible.com if you want to read the entire Bible online.

There is nothing decent and orderly about performing a stunt in the middle of church. This stunt involving a motorcycle at church is no better than so-called "holy laughter" or should I say unholy laughter in the Pentecostal churches.