Church Dating Series Includes Song from Grease that Glorifies Pre-Marital Sex

What could be more relevant than performing a song from Grease that glorifies pre-marital sex?

Here is 'Summer Nights' as performed by Granger Community Church.

"She Was Good. You know What I mean."

What is Granger Church teaching folks with a performance like this?

Apparently Granger forgot a few passages of scripture that are relevant to their use of so-called 'relevance'.

Galatians 6:14 But far be it from me to boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

James 4:4 You adulterous people! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.

Comments

[Neil]

Since there's no link to the context I can't speak to how it was used by the church. But in the original musical it's obvious they did not have pre-marital sex (at least not up to that point in the plot)...

Neil

[Chris]

That Granger Community Church is one peculiar church. I worked my way through portions of their website and came across the page that introduces their staff. For each employee, they lay out a series of Q&A's. One woman was asked what her favorite movie is. She responded with "American Pie". Now, I realize that Christians have disagreements regarding the viewing of movies, and I've never seen the movie, but for her to say that that is her favorite movie is an absolute disgrace. Due to the extremely graphic dialogue of the script, I won't quote any of it in this email. But here's the link that gives some highlights: (caution advised) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0163651/quotes

Where is the discipline and right teaching in that church that would counsel this woman away from such filth?

[Skylar]

ok, so....that's "church?" lol That is so dumb. I don't get it. Emergent theology continues!

[Skylar]

Ya, I just sent Ingrid S. at Slice of Laodicea an email about how Granger did "Material Girl" by Madonna. http://www.sliceoflaodicea.com/?p=685

[joeldad]

I hate to say it, but after reading through the Q&As for many of the staff members, I am having a hard time finding almost anything that does not directly resemble the world.

[James]

It's not about teaching.

It's about being relevant for the "seekers" by performing outdated musical numbers, so that they will see that the members of this church are COOL, so that they will realize that Jesus must be also be COOL, so that they will realize that they can be COOL too by becoming a Christian.....Or should that be "SWEET"?...or "SICK"?....or something like that.

[Skylar]

ya seriously James, last time I checked, we're not to be relevant, but reviled, hated, and persecuted. But see, we shine our light not by being relevant, but by showing ourselves approved in our Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, when we love our persecutors, bless those who curse us, and pray for those who spitefully use us. When we try to make things "relevant" we make it out of our flesh, kind of like Abraham birthing an Ishmael if you get my drift. But when we don't make it "relevant" we allow the Holy Spirit to do the work.

It's all about look, if you have thousands, you are now a "successful" preacher. However, it's not about numbers, it's about souls. It's about changed lives for Christ who will do anything for Him.

[Skylar]

I found this to be so true:

# The heavier the cross, the better saint;
This is the touchstone God applies.
The gardens many would be faint,
Unwet by showers from weeping eyes!
The gold by fire is purified;
The saint is by much trouble tried.

# The heavier the cross, the stronger faith:
The loaded palm strikes deeper root;
The vine juice sweetly issueth
When men have pressed the clustered fruit;
And courage grows where dangers come,
Like pearls beneath the salty foam.

# The heavier the cross, the deeper prayer;
The bruised herbs most fragrant are.
If sky and wind were always fair,
The sailor would not watch the star;
And David's Psalms had ne'er been sung
If grief his heart had never wrung.

# The heavier the cross, the more inspired;
From vales to climb to mountain crest;
The pilgrim, of the desert tired,
Longs for the Canaan of his rest.
The dove has here no rest in sight,
And to the ark she wings her flight.

# The heavier the cross, the easier to die;
Death is a kinder face to see;
Our life's decay we dare defy,
From life's distress we then are free.
The cross sublimely lifts our faith
To Him who triumphed over death.

# Thou Crucified! the cross I bear.
The longer, may it dearer be;
And lest I faint while ling'ring here,
Implant Thou such a heart in me
That faith and love may flourish e'er
Till for the cross the crown I wear.

[Theology Girl]

Neil, although in the movie Danny and Sandy had not had sex up to that point, the fact of the matter is the song contains certain lyrics that allude to the fact that they had. Besides, the whole movie has sexual overtones. Now, I will admit that I like Grease and the soundtrack. However, I don't think it is an appropriate skit for young people (or anybody else for that matter) to be "performing" for a church wide audience. Once again, it is another tactic by an emergent chuch to be like the world to attract the world to give the world a weak and watered down "gospel". As was asked earlier, where is the discipline?

[Neil]

TheologyGirl,

It's not my intent to defend the musical (or even Granger), nor say it does not have sexual overtones - the very fact that one of the girls thinks she's pregnant belies that.

But the song in question does not glorify premarital sex. It's obvious from a comparison of his version of their romance compared to hers that he is embellishing for the benefit of his reputation with the guys. The whole premise is based on her "not putting out."

Anyway, all I wanted to address was the hyperbole of the headline.

Neil

[Defending. Contending.]

These are the antics of a comfortable, lukewarm "church."
However, this church will be vacant when we lose a city U.S. to a terrorist nuclear bomb. Why? Because these types of "churches" designed to tickle ears will have no answers then. People will no longer want to be entertained but instead they will want truth, and they will not find it in these kinds of "churches."

I recently published a post on this very topic and included a ten-minute audio clip from John Piper with it that I recommend you listen to. You can find it here:

http://defendingcontending.wordpress.com/2008/04/28/suffering-christianity-vs-chipper-christianity/

Never Compromise!
- The Pilgrim

[Wes]

Do these people have no shame? I can't imagine a context where this would be appropriate in a Church. But then what should we expect from a church which champions pragmatic, self-indulgent, entertainment oriented, Me-Centered Theology?

Granger, how do you compare this with, for example, worship as modeled in Isaiah 6?

[Christy]

a lot of insinuation, without actually saying they had premarital sex. But that really doesn't make it any better, even if he's "embellishing" for his reputation. We're supposed to avoid even the appearance of impropriety, and this really doesn't. What did this clip have to do with godly dating?

[Logan Paschke]

Oh Lord my God...
when I in awesome wonder
consider all the worlds thy hands have made
I see the stars, I hear the rolling thunder
your power throughout the universe proclaimed...
then sings my soul! My Savior God to thee!
How great thou art! How great thou art!

That hymn is worship, read the psalms, that's worship.

SEXploitation is going on here using the movie Grease to try and be relevant. The movie is all about sex, period. To think that those hours these acting "adults" wasted studying the routine is making me nauseous.

Someone get me a bucket.

[Jud]

I teach in the public schools.

Our High School's play of choice was "Grease" this year.

They altered all of the lyrics to make it "PG".

I guess I'm going to have to talk to my administrator about our systems lack of RELEVANCE.

[Michelle Wegner]

Friends,
I think you have gone to far in assuming reading through a Q&A page on a staff website you have gotten to know those whom you have read about. The leaps and bounds my best friend, whom Skylar was referring to that enjoyed the movie "American Pie" has made in her walk with Christ and her relationship with her husband are astounding to me. She eminates the life of Jesus, the love of Jesus, his hope, his everything to those around her.
The other staff that you refer to, Chris, are the most amazing, Godly men and women I have ever known. They are seeking to know Jesus and make him known with everything in them. I happen to know that very well because I live with and am sleeping with one of the pastors, and have been for 15 years.
I have been at GCC for 16 years this summer, and have never been more happy to be in the middle of God's work in Granger than I am right now. I am sorry you all fail to see His glory and His name being glorified here and to the ends of the earth through the ministries,members and staff of GCC.

[Theology Girl]

And the people did what was right in the sight of their own eyes. That was true of the Israelites, and that is even more true today. Christ shed his blood for his bride, yet his bride is playing harlot with the world. Think of all the great men who lost their lives for the purity of the church and the truth of God's word to be preached in the church, now we have forsaken both purity and truth inside the church walls. Anything goes for the sake of "outreach". Let's not make people feel uncomfortable about their sin, let's just sugar coat everything so we can get our numbers up and look great in the eyes of the world. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, didn't we prophecy in your name? Wide is the path that leads to destruction but narrow is the path that leads to righteousness.

I am all for Christian liberty. I enjoy good movies, some secular music, tv shows and what not. I just believe it is wrong to bring the world into the church. God set up a standard for how He wants to be worshiped and worldliness was not in that standard.

[Skylar]

I am sorry, but if you, Michelle are justifying someone watching American Pie and saying they are godly, I think you need to check twice what you say. That movie is sick and I can't believe I even allowed myself to watch that movie.

It's as if the older generation can't be a godly example for us teenagers. I am sick of it. Stop looking like the world. I don't understand. why is it that I open my Bible and read that to take up our cross means persecution for Christ, yet no one wants to take up their cross!

Stop justifying this Michelle, if that is what you are doing. We WILL KNOW THEM by (by what?) their fruits. One of my favorite worship teams, whom I thought had stayed unspotted from the world, I was reading their Q&A and their lead worship pastors' favorite movie is MOULIN ROUGE and MEMENTO! MR is about a prostitute with disgusting scenes, and Memento has a nude scene and over 70 f-words. I guess that's a pretty godly life.

I don't understand this at all. I am 18 and am looking for a great example. but I seem to find little to none. all of us sing His praises don't we, but do live out what we sing, preach, and teach on? Do we actually stay unspotted from the world as we are told to do in Romans 12:1-2? no we don't, because we want to be relevant.

Mam, we don't fail to see His name being glorified, it's not there to be scene at Granger. I am sorry if this sounds harsh, but I don't want a relevant church that is going to butter up the gospel of Christ. Your words are awesome, but they are empty because the fruit of granger is nothing but a bottomless emergent fallout.

I love modern things, there's nothing wrong with being neat looking. but I despise when churches and Christians play their part on Sunday being "relevant" and make a show out of false-Christianity but they don't even live what they preach and all they do is offer profane fire. why aren't their mega churches who will follow God until death holding the Gospel of Christ in its entirety?

we will know them by their fruits.

[Skylar]

You said this on your blog Michelle:

---------
Wow. Big people....(that means anyone over 8) be careful how you live your life. Use wisdom....even when everyone around you is telling you something is ok, but you know deep down inside it is wrong, RUN THE OTHER WAY!
---------

Well, what if maybe we're right? what if this is God telling you to run the other way? I mean honestly, if your not being persecuted for your faith, then why did Jesus say we will be HATED by the world because they hated Me first? if your relevant, your not reviled. The Gospel is all the relevance we need. You said something else that was very good:

--------
No matter who you are, there is someone looking up to you. Don't let your life be "marked forever" by one wrong decision.
--------

I would say the same to Granger. I don't want to be rude, but Michelle, can't you see that this life, if we just live in comfy Christianity is waisted on trying to not offended rather than save? I hope you hear me on this.

[Teresa]

"Did you get very far....?"The other "Christian Boys" ask?

I am sure in the original musical and then this song being done from the pulpit that begs the question, "Did you get very far?"

I am sure (with sarcasm) that they were only talking about the gospel presentation..
Did you get very far in your gospel presentation?

Yeah, that must be what they are talking about b/c it is a church that is "trying" to uphold Jesus Christ.

Paul the Apostle would have wigged out if he saw they direction the "church" is going today...So sad.

Is it the book of Jude that talks about how the grace of GOd through evil men, becomes lewd?

There ya have it.UGH!

[Teresa]

Previous poster says:
The other staff that you refer to, Chris, are the most amazing, Godly men and women I have ever known. They are seeking to know Jesus and make him known with everything in them. I happen to know that very well because I live with and am sleeping with one of the pastors, and have been for 15 years.

What? If these people want to teach Jesus, then they need to stop putting on meaningless and useless plays with songs that encourage and question if they main guy was able to get into the Main girls pants and if she put up a fight? That has what to do with telling people that they need Jesus and his death on the cross for their sins including fornication and everything else?

Did you also just say you were sleeping with the Pastor for the last 15 years, Christian lady? HUHHHHHH???? I hope you are MRS. Pastor and that you can keep that on the down low, as we all know what happens when a man and a woman fall in love and commit in marraige.

I don't get you?
All so very strange.

[Suzanne]

Michelle,
I fail to see how someone singing "Material Girl" in a church setting could in any way glorify God!

(Lyrics such as these: Boys may come and boys may go
And thats all right you see
Experience has made me rich
And now they're after me...
Hummmm? Wonder what kind of experiece she means?)

I looked on the church's website, and once I found that video clip, I knew I had seen enough. Madonna, after all, is such a bastion of good taste and pure living. Does the church carry her book "Sex" in the church library, too?

[Brian]

Michelle,

I do not blame you for trying to defend your friends. I commend you for not explicitly using "we got numbers, so God must be blessing argument." By the way, power hungry independent Baptist fundamentalist leaders used that same argument when the heat was on for their immoral or controlling behavior. I certainly commend for not using the numbers make this right argument like I have heard from other seeker or emergent leaders [yes, I know these movements are not one and the same]. Your argument is that many of the readers don't what you know and you believe that God is blessing at Granger through personal experience. Time and ultimately the Lord will tell, Michelle. I hope Christ is ultimately glorified at Granger in some way though I have strong doubts about that.

You have brought up personal experience. I will bring up my personal experience with Grease. I went to this movie with my aunt when I was about 10. She totally lived her life without reference to God about as much as anyone I knew--no surprise that wouldn't think about the moral implications of what she was doing. Much of the content of Grease went over my head at age 10, but years later someone explained the obvious message of this musical hit. The story of Grease glorifies the corruption of the sweet young lady main character. Look at Olivia Newton-John at the beginning of the movie compared to the end of the movie. Hollywood calls yarns about going from being not experienced to "experienced" in immorality, "coming of age flicks"--the Bible calls it fornication. When I found out what Grease was really about years later, I felt kind of violated, stupid, and that I had been down right gullible. I can't blame my aunt--she wasn't a believer. This is not a never go see movies rant, but Christian leaders, unlike my aunt, should know that a musical with an immoral message has no redemptive possibilities in and of itself. Oh, you can certainly reference Grease for an illustration, but I would hope one of the illustrations would be about how popular entertainment can lure you into rooting for behavior that you would never condone in real life.

I have been in megachurches before, and I have seen the droves of people just along for the ride simply because it was an exciting place. I hope the staff of your church uses the opportunity to really shake up some in the masses that come to GCC. After all, sexual immorality is a heaven and hell matter (Matthew 5:27-30). You might have some of the masses leave if your pastors thunder like Jesus did in this area. I hope Granger is not unwittingly like my aunt (who never came to the Lord) by putting entertainment before the gathered that is pretty much unredeemable.

[Amy]

In the words of the Apostle Paul "I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified."

----------
What I see in these worldly, carnal skits and even in these staff Q&A's among other things is an exaltation of SELF. It seems to have become about us and not about the Lord Jesus Christ anymore.

I glanced through the Q&A's and I was looking and hoping for one person...just one!...to say "You know, it's NOT about me. It about Jesus Christ! He is my Everything." But no.

Church should serve to point the way to the Lord Jesus Christ, not men. Church should exalt and glorify the Lord Jesus Christ, not men. Church should serve to draw us into a deeper, more faithful walk with Jesus Christ, not cater to our fleshly, worldly, selfish desires.

These types of churches seem to know nothing of the power of the Holy Spirit. If they did, they wouldn't have to do these ridiculous and silly songs and dances to reign the masses in. It reeks of utter desperation, to be honest.

The early Apostles, full of the Holy Spirit, preached the Gospel boldly and without apology, and the Lord added thousands to the Church. No song. No dance. No ridiculous, worldly antics.

Sadly, when the Spirit of the Lord departs, all we are left with is finite, weak, fallible human striving, and that is what I see in most so-called churches today.

[Skylar]

I suggest anyone wanting to be relevant should go read what Stephen said in acts to those who thought they loved and honored God. He was murdered for it. I don't think that was very relevant.

[Aletheia]

Yes, Teresa, Michelle is the pastor's wife of 15 years, as is apparent by a quick glance at her blog. So it's the most appropriate thing in the world for them to be living together and sleeping together, but I think she was trying to make the point that it's possible to make even something as wholesome as marital intimacy look bad if you consider isolated facts out of context.

Brian, "coming of age" stories aren't necessarily about immorality in the way you imply. They're about a shift in perception from childish thinking to an adult way of thinking. Invariably this involves becoming aware of the immorality of others, and often it involves making some foolish choices of one's own. But no true "coming of age" story would depict immoral behavior as being glorious enough to justify its consequences, because it's only when you realize just what ugly and permanent damage comes from doing the wrong thing that you understand as never before why doing the right thing is so important.

[Michael Cordich]

I loved the poem skylar posted on April 30. Do you know who wrote it? I would love to know.

[Logan Paschke]

Seriously? American Pie is one of the staffer's favorite movies? Seriously?

How is it possible to justify that?

---

Opening up the Bible and expounding the Word of the Lord is not enough anymore, the church has become the theater and anyone who questions this is thought to be "dividing" the church.

Jesus taught that division was necessary when it came to Him and I believe that I'd rather stand for truth than conform into an irreverent view of worship and a form of the gospel.

"Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35"For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her..."

"Do you suppose that I came to grant peace on earth? I tell you, no, but rather division; 52for from now on five members in one household will be divided, three against two, and two against three..."

[Aletheia]

The poem is a translation from the German and the writer may be called Smolk.

[Brian]

Alethia,

I will stand by what I wrote because I said what "Hollywood calls coming of age" films. I will not deny that some craft stories that picture virtuous coming of age tales, which can include the main character(s) learning from wrong and foolish choices. Now for Hollywood, I have lost count of how many times teen/young adult sex experimentation movies are called "coming of age" films. I think most would see exactly what I had in mind. Though not disagreeing with most of the reaction to an insider at GCC (Michelle), I hope you see a measured tone in responding to her. My personal account is not one I am proud of, but may be someone checking this site, who is not convinced of the theology represented here, will think a little bit before thinking that pop media/culture/entertainment is just a gold mine that can be exploited to preach Christ. Without preaching a message here, the world view of Grease is exactly what Christ came to save people from. What are Christian leaders thinking when they put on Grease? With that, I will try to not to be pulled into blog banter.

[Mike D.]

You know... when I refer to my wife, I don't say "this is the person I've been living with and sleeping with for 14 years." I say "this is my bride whom I love dearly."

I think that statement by Michelle sums it all up. When all you get are sex sermons and "relevant" worship, this is the kind of talk I would expect. Par for the course for someone who attends GCC. Out of the heart the mouth speaks.

Am I being harsh? Perhaps, and for that I apologize and ask forgiveness. But I am seriously struggling with how a "church" finds "Material Girl" and "Summer Nights" appropriate for worship? I know that the lead pastor's new book "Pop Goes the Church" is all about finding "god" in the culture, but I'm amazed that they now think it's appropriate to bring the culture into the church.

As well, please tell me how I can be 'kind of pregnant'? In other words, when I became a believer, I turned away from all the filthy movies I used to watch. I can't imagine working on the staff of a church and telling others that my favorite movie is one of the filthiest movies out there. How can one follow the Perfect and Holy Son of God, but still love the filth this world has to offer? I know we all sin, but to state that a sinful movie is your favorite, the two don't fit.

"For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? 15 What accord has Christ with Belial?" (2 Cor. 6:14-15)

Mike D.

[Final Trumpet]

Well, I watched it and thought they did a pretty good job. Quite entertaining. Just the kind of performance I would expect if I was on vacation at 6-Flags or Disneyworld. Maybe they should go to one of those places and get hired on to perform.

Oh yeah, they are too busy doing this in their church. Maybe instead they should just add some theme rides and more performances and they can open their own theme park. Then they can finally be complete in making church "relevant". Make some cash to boot. I mean, who needs God when you have such fine, worldly entertainment, right?

[Brian M.]

Taken from their website:

"Granger Community Church is the best example of a purpose-driven church in the country. And Mark Beeson is a phenomenal communicator and leader." Dr. Rick Warren, best-selling author of The Purpose-Driven® Life, and founding pastor of Saddleback Church in Lake Forest, CA
-------------------------

That about sums it up. Anytime you get a compliment from Rick Warren, you know you're in trouble.

[Aletheia]

You're right, Brian. The label "coming of age film" is too often slapped on movies that glorify engaging in grown-up activities with a toddler's mentality - "I want it NOW!" It's unfortunate that a genre that's traditionally been associated with stories of hard-won wisdom and growth is now often associated with stories that suggest wisdom is easy and growth is always pleasant. Just another reason we need to be discerning.

Mike, if you look at Michelle's blog, she clearly thinks of Rob as her beloved husband, the father of her children, not just some guy she's been sleeping with regularly for a long time. Her comment on this blog was clearly meant to make a point - if you get all wrapped up in one particular detail, you just might miss the big picture. What she's trying to say, I think, is "Don't spend so much time wrapped up in one particular detail that you miss the message." I'm not saying I do or don't agree with Granger's message - I don't know enough about what they're really saying. But Michelle has a point. If there's something wrong with their THEOLOGY, by all means go ahead and say so. But don't bash someone you've never met, in a public forum, because she has questionable taste in movies.

[Chris]

Aletheia,

Christians are to admonish others who claim the name of Christ but fail to publicly live up to His name. Paul did just that to Peter when he caved to worldly concerns. Questionable taste in movies? Try depraved taste in movies. This is coming from a woman who considers herself a Christian but admits for the world to see that her favorite movie is one that is essentially pornographic. This is utterly unconscionable. Yes, we all struggle with our old, sinful man, but this is without excuse and a direct reflection on the leadership of the church that she attends.

[Ruth]

Chris,

Well said. Amen.

[Aletheia]

Having never seen the movie in question, I wouldn't know. When I hear the word "unconscionable," though, I think of someone who beats her children or flagrantly cheats on her husband. Not someone who watches a movie, unless it's hardcore violent pornography with nonconsenting participants.

Admonishing this woman would mean actually confronting her - not posting comments on a web site in hopes that she might happen to stumble across it someday. It would involve listening as well as speaking - not necessarily because you might be wrong, but because people listen better to what you have to say if they feel listened to as well. I wonder what she likes about the movie? Maybe it just happened to have all her favorite actors in it. Maybe that web page is really old and she's grown a lot spiritually since then. I'm not necessarily defending her - it sounds like an awful movie from everything I've heard. But I'm not perfect either, and I wouldn't want my failings to be discussed on someone else's website without a chance to either apologize or defend myself.

As for how it reflects on her church leadership - do you honestly think there are any churches out there without ANYONE in the congregation who has ever enjoyed a tasteless movie? Personally I doubt it.

[Logan Paschke]

All this other American Pie stuff aside, I have to ask the question would I feel comfortable as a Christian either acting in this play, playing an instrument for the music, or just sitting in the church watching this.

No, I wouldn't. Just watching it gives me an upset stomach, literally. Besides, whenever the church imitates the world the church comes off as cheesy and pathetic even with the church's big production values.

And, of course, duh, it's not Biblical.

We're pilgrims of this world, we're not supposed to set up shop on vanity island. We preach our truth and one day we will leave with all those that are God's to at last see our treasure in Heaven, who is Jesus Christ.

[Rhea]

There are probably lots of godly pastors who at one time or another (possibly even before they were saved) who enjoyed some "less than wholesome" movies. Fine. I think that the problem that people have here is that when you mention on your CHURCH'S website that "American Pie" is your favourite movie, you're basically endorsing it to THE WORLD...and you're doing so as a CHRISTIAN.

That's the problem. Leader's will be held to a higher standard...

[Scott]

"As for how it reflects on her church leadership - do you honestly think there are any churches out there without ANYONE in the congregation who has ever enjoyed a tasteless movie? Personally I doubt it."

We will be judged by Christ for our actions, not in comparison to other's actions.

[Shma]

Why do these churches feel that the Word of God can not speak for itself? I remember going to see Grease when I was young. I thought it was a bad movie than - now to bring it into the church.

[Shma]

Interesting quote from Vance Havner

The Gospel works by a different method from the wisdom of men. God's methods with His Church have seemed utterly ridiculous from the very beginning. Our Lord called twelve obscure men, fishermen & common folk, & one of them a traitor. The early Church went out simply to witness to Jesus Christ, with no elaborate organization or program. Never did an undertaking appear more hopeless to a world that plans and schemes & worships the god of efficiency. But that early fellowship upset the world. Today the Church dares not risk the "foolishness" & weakness of God,& so patterns after the world: its organization, methods, financial programs, campaigns, drives, educational systems have been borrowed from the present age; its whole life has been modeled after the business, educational, financial, & social set-up of modern man. David is hauling the ark on a new cart. The spirit of this commercialized age has invaded the sanctuary. Ministers' studies have become offices. Corporation methods have become more important than consecrated men. Mem work in church with the spirit of the counting-house. Human busyness has obscured the Father's Business. The best church, nowdays, is the one with the most impressive statistics. The wisdom of man has become adviser to the Church of Christ, and everywhere today the results are painfully evident. Submerged in debt, shorn of power, & crowded with unregenerated members, the churches vainly try still newer methods & seek by high-pressure rallies & cheer-leader enthusiasm to do God's work in man's way. Not until we repent of our folly & sind, & dare to prove the foolishness & weakness of God in simple Spirit-filled living & testimony, shall we recover our Pentecost.

Though it sounds much like today this was written in 1938 - satan just uses the same methods over & over.

[Scott]

"Having never seen the movie in question, I wouldn't know. When I hear the word "unconscionable," though, I think of someone who beats her children or flagrantly cheats on her husband. Not someone who watches a movie, unless it's hardcore violent pornography with nonconsenting participants."

What an amazing statement, Aletheia, so would watching a hardcore, violent, pornographic movie be okay if the participants were consenting? I would state that any movie with any nudity would be a sin to watch. Jesus Christ declared:
Matthew 5:27-28 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: (28) But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
We should not be partnering with the world and we should not use pop culture to reach the lost. Paul wrote:
2Corinthians 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
The movie Grease is not harmless. Consider this: the lead male singer lied and made innuendo about the lead female singer. It does not matter that they "eventually" married (according to the skit) wrong is wrong, sin is sin, and his actions are not something to emulate.
If someone's theology is Biblically correct and they are truly walking in submission to Jesus Christ, then their lives will reflect that. That would include movie selection. If she has changed, then she should try to have the web page altered to reflect that. Michelle could have made her point without resorting to statements that could lead to the wrong conclusions.

[Aletheia]

Wait . . . when did I say that something is "okay" just because it isn't what comes to mind when I think of that which is truly "unconscionable"? Yes, all sin is wrong by definition, but does that mean we should treat it all as equally harmful in the same way, on the same level for practical purposes or for what it indicates about a person's heart condition?

I complain too much. I can be just a bit petty. Sometimes I sulk when I don't get my way. Are these "okay"? No. Are they "unconscionable"? I don't think so.

I'm 100% opposed to any kind of degrading or exploitative depiction of the human body or the sex act. In my previous post, I was describing the worst of the worst - something for which no person with a shred of conscience could make any justification whatsoever, which is what "unconscionable" literally means.

You may accuse me of being one of those fundamentalist dictionary-thumpers if you like.

I don't know about everyone else, but I don't get what's so sexy about naked people per se. I guarantee you, Scott, if you were a doctor who saw the human body all day long or if you lived in a society where people wore much less clothing than they do in our society, you wouldn't be walking around in a constant state of lust. You would have come to terms a long, long time ago with the fact that women have curves. Personally, I could watch a whole movie in which the entire cast was naked, and if the plot wasn't interesting I would be monumentally bored once the novelty of the gimmick wore off (I'd guess in about 5 minutes). I don't know what the big deal is for some people. I really don't.

[M.G.]

Scott,

I think it's beyond clear from Aletheia's comment that nonconsent is something that often will be part of what makes something unconscionable. But just because something is not unconscionable doesn't mean it's not "bad," "awful," or even "terrible." To say that she is arguing that once consent enters the picture, it means nothing can be sin is a terrible misinterpretation. (But not unconscionable :-)

While you are correct that people's lives will reflect the gospel, even up to the movies that we watch, we must be careful lest we slide down a slippery slope. Do we not all have blindspots? Do we not all have sin that is hidden from our eyes?

For instance, Scott, I personally believe that being a Christian means being charitable in all that we do, even in our reading. And I also believe only a heart given over to sin would engage in such a blatant misinterpretation of someone else's words. But, at the same time, I would never say you're not a Christian.

My personal recommendation would be, in your quest to defend the truth, slow down. Pause. Give people the benefit of the doubt. And understand that when someone disagrees with you, it doesn't mean that their statement must therefore be interpreted in the most negative light.

[Shack]

"Am I being harsh? Perhaps, and for that I apologize and ask forgiveness."

Mike D. - You were right; you were being too harsh. If, in the midst of typing your comment, you recognized that it was something you would need to apologize for and ask forgiveness...you never should have posted it to begin with.

[Plankman]

Rhea,

It surprises me that you are critical of someone based on the movies listed on a public website. I went to your blog and you list these two movies, among others, as favorites:

Crash: Includes multiple sexual scences, nudity, sexual joking, over 100 instances of the F-word, and Christ's name being used in vain 4 times.

Double Jeopardy: Includes a graphic sexual scene, nudity, sexual dialogue, profane language, and graphic murder.

[travis Spencer]

Your blog does nothing for God's Kingdom.

Maybe you should call it, "A blog that hates Christian brothers who are different form us." Or use "Brethren" instead of brothers.... whatever word choice you like best.

[Mike D.]

Shack,

You're right. The Spirit dealt with me last night about this, I've asked for His forgiveness, and now I would like to recant the first 2 paragraphs of my comment and ask for Michelle's forgiveness.

However, I still stand by what I said in the rest of my comment.

SDG,

Mike D.

[Chris]

It is very revealing to see the spiritual gymnastics being performed in these comments to put the best spin on the public face of this church. Ostensibly, this church has a fairly wide influence in their community. Their employees have an opportunity, via their website, to humbly proclaim how the Lord has delivered them from unrighteousness and given them a new heart filled with a joy that comes from the knowledge of Christ and a peace that comes from the reality of everlasting life with the Father. Instead, while slipping in a few "God words", they expose the fact that they have one foot in the world and one foot in the Scripture. Sorry, doesn't work that way. The leadership is very much to blame since they are the face of the church and they are responsible for the website. Those nonsensical skits have absolutely no place in a service dedicated to the worship of the Ruler of the universe.