"Pastor Osteen": What About Pastor Zaur Balaev

"Pastor" Joel Osteen preaches a candy coated "gospel" that turns Jesus into your personal genie and life coach. So, from time to time, we're going to ask "Pastor Osteen" ...what about those Christians who are suffering persecution and death because of their belief in the Biblical gospel. Should we assume that these people are suffering persecution needlessly since Osteen believes they should be able to experience their 'best lives now'?

Today we are featuring Pastor Zaur Balaev.

Location: Azerbaijan
Arrested: May 2007

On May 20, 2007, Pastor Zaur Balaev was arrested for “conducting an illegal religious meeting” in his home village in Aliabad, Azerbaijan. In August, he was sentenced to two years in prison under Article 315, Part 1, for allegedly violently resisting the police during a raid. The authorities first claimed that Pastor Balaev released a dog on police, but have since claimed he attacked five policemen and damaged a car door. During the trial, some witnesses reported that police had pressured them into testifying against Pastor Balaev.

We thank our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ for men like Pastor Zaur Balaev for their bravery and willingness to forego their 'best lives now' so that they can share the true Biblical gospel in countries where being a Christian guarantees persecution, suffering and even martyrdom.

Comments

[David G.]

ANYBODY that can aid someone to even look at the bible should be commended. Not everyone listens or learns the same, thus not every preacher or minister should be the same. The human race is not a cookie cutter solution for ONE WAY to hear the word or opinion.

Get a life and help someone turn to the Bible vs throwing your personal issues at them through this medium of judgement, jealousy and inferiority complex.

[Chris R.]

The idea that "not every preacher or minister should be the same" may be true in terms of style or personality, but this does not excuse changing the content of the message! I contend that anyone who has listened to a significant number of Joel Osteen's messages and thinks he is preaching the Biblical gospel does not understand the gospel at all.

Yes, we need to be turning people to the Bible, but those who have been called to be pastors need to be sure they are teaching sound doctrine. As one who claims the title of pastor but teaches falsehood, Joel Osteen needs to be corrected and called to repentance.

If Joel called himself a motivational speaker, many would be fine with him. The false assurance he is giving people by making them think Christianity is centrally a message about "Your Best Life Now" is what makes him so dangerous.

[Steve]

I fully agree, Chris. As a motivational speaker, Joel is at the top of his game. As a pastor, he's not doing his congregation any favours by focusing on temporal success.

[Mrs. Pilgrim]

David G. recommends that the Curator "[g]et a life and help someone turn to the Bible..." I must assume that David does not read the content of this site--because I, a regular reader, note that this site refers people constantly to Scripture, particularly with links to the passages quoted.

Furthermore, he assumes that anything posted is done out of "judgement, jealousy and inferiority complex." I wonder who gave David the power to know the content of another man's heart whom he has never met.

[CIB]

Hey David G. Here's a part of a rap song I wrote that addresses that:

I ain't gonna say it's wrong to have the right mindset
but If ya found food, then help the hungry find it

It ain't about bein' active like we was some radium
It ain't about them numbers you can stack up in the stadium

cuz you can get it all the way stacked to the rim
but why they gonna turn if they don't know about sin?

Like they walkin' off a cliff in about another mile
Why they gonna turn if all ya tell 'em is to smile?

Cuz you can go to hell with a smile on your grill
Pockets that are fat, and a mansion on a hill

see, you can have your "Best Life" or the best intentions
But let me tell you somethin' just in case I didn't metion

-------

The song goes on to talk about how the things of the world will pass away and we should be stackin' up treasure in heaven.

[frankie]

"I wonder who gave David the power to know the content of another man's heart whom he has never met."

Mrs. Pilgrim,

I am NOT saying I agree with Joel Osteen, but I would like to say the same person that gives David the power to know the content of another man's heart whom he has never met, gave the majority of the people the same power...How do you know Osteen's, Warren's, and McLaren's heart? Again, I am not saying I agree with them, but I assume you know their heart out of what they say...maybe it is the same with the majority of the people on this site. A lot of times a lot of people...curator included...come across as smart mouths and arrogant. However, they vehemently deny it and are quick to point the other finger. Both sides are not right and we should be able to have communication without argument.

[frank]

I am a pastor in the Missionary Church ( www.mcusa.org ). My problem with Joel is not so much what he says but what he doesn't say. By his own admission, he doesn't like to talk about topics like sin, judgment, or repentance. These are some of the basic elements of the gospel. I cannot fathom a pastor NOT talking about such things.

I will give Joel credit where credit is due. He is a wonderful public speaker...very engaging and easy to listen to. I've no problem saying he is a far better speaker than I am. I also believe he is a sincere man. Those things aside, ALL pastors must preach the whole counsel of God, not just the "nice parts" of scripture to make people feel good. How many non-Christians can watch Joel's broadcasts and go away feeling good about themselves and their standing with God despite being lost? I would say quite a few. I would urge folks to pray for Joel. I don't think he is a huckster, but a sincere man who has much to learn. He has no formal theological training. Imagine, with his popularity, if the Lord would open his heart and mind to preaching the whole counsel of God what an impact could be made. Sadly, as of right now, as one secular news source noted..."He's America's most popular pastor and he rarely mentions God." Even the unsaved recognize something is amiss with a pastor who won't preach the basic elements of the faith. As scripture says, "THe children of darkness are in this generation wiser than the children of light."

[Teresa]

That was truly powerful and brought stinging tears to my eyes. Christ is so worth it, isn't he? My pastor last Sunday asked if we would be willing to give up our lives for Christ. To see that this man was being persecuted for nothing more than spreading truth in his own home, I am overcome with joy for his impeding reward. I cringe to think of what Joel has to come. I am so happy and yet so sad all at the same time...

[Josh]

Frankie,
We may not “know the heart” of these mega-church pastors, however, we do see the fruits that they have put forth – their fruits are rancid. Jesus did say that we would know them by their fruits. The curator’s fruits are solid – this site and his continued biblically sound comments testify to that fact. Nor, in my opinion, whatever it may be worth, should certain playful sarcasm be taken as arrogance. I know this personally, after a while poking fun at heresy is all you can do to keep from crying, screaming, getting angry, or moving to the Alaskan wilderness to spend the rest of your days in isolation with the truth of the scripture (I'm half serious about that). We all have our own coping mechanisms, and as long as they are not condemning truth they may be (and I do mean may be) acceptable. Just my own thoughts – maybe I’m right or maybe I’m wrong. Anyway, take care.

[frankie]

Josh,

That was my point..."poking fun at heresy." Not everything on this site is heresy, but it still gets made fun of. I do not believe that is a very Christ like attitude...I think Jesus would have prayed for any of these ministries that are not properly handling the word, not poked fun.

Just examining the fruit.

[Chadm]

Amen frankie. You have just said in a few sentences what I have been trying to say for some time now. Your words were truth spoken in the right attitude. Its amazing the loyalty
thats put up to defend the Curator. Josh said that after poking fun at heresy he feels like crying, screaming, getting angry or moving to Alaska. Maybe all this negative, sarcasm(smart mouths), poking fun etc.and being exposed to this site is causing our brother Josh to stumble. As with Mrs. Pilgrim. A little while back she had to take a break from this site because she felt that she was stumbling in her attitude. What fruit do you see from this site???

[Josh]

Frankie,
Point well taken, thankyou my friend.
Josh

[Mrs. Pilgrim]

Frankie, I don't profess to know the content of another's heart. I do, however, propose that someone's behavior is wrong.

And there is nothing more logically inconsistent and hypocritical than someone who says, "Don't ever judge anyone, you self-righteous insecure fool suffering from an inferiority complex!"

...And Chad, wherein do you think I stumble--or are you just saying that to try to make me take back the things you don't want me to say? (It's just a question, m'dear.)

[planetes]

"Well, there you go again." In the immortal words of an ex-president a generation ago.

I've been lurking around for some time, not commenting on anything until today.

In my field of work, which I enjoy, I have to step back at times because of the toil - emotional and spiritual - it can exact. That does not condemn my field of work, though, any more than Mrs. Pilgrim's taking a break condemn this site, the comments of others, or the "fruits from this site."

I don't think for a moment that people here want to defend the curator for the sake of defending the curator. I've read a lot of comments and I've seen no indication that anyone gets special treatment for kissing up. Maybe, just maybe, we defend the curator because with so much of the garbage that passes for witness, he gets it!

Being that we are all but dust, it's hard at times not to get all snappy and stuff (see Moses, striking rock twice for water, God's displeasure, beheld the promised land with eyes only) for what to many of us seems like very unseemly, trite junk being marketed to the gullible among us. And I personally have even less tolerance (absolutely, I'm intolerant about lots of things) for Christianity in its modernity, particularly mass ignorance re: the Scriptures and people who try to wail in those of us who hold to a stricter idea of the holiness of God.

So David G, frankie, and chadm, et al, you need to know that we don't have to stand on the same plot of ground to be in the fold. I don't ask that you stand on the same spot that I do, or Mrs. Pilgrim does, or anyone else on this site does, but don't try to knock us off either. If you want your own spot in the fold (and I, not knowing you, assume you are in the fold) respected, you need to do the same, since much of what you do is make snide comments and pseudointellectual gesticulations about the motives of others and frequent childish admonishments for us to "get a life." If you don't like the way we live our life, please humor us and move on, as I am sure that our lives cause you great consternation.

frankie, you are just plain wrong that Jesus would have prayed for all these errant ministries. The truth is, we just don't know. About spiritual Babylon that Christ mentions in Revelation, He simply commands us to "come out of her". He didn't pray for a heart change, He didn't pray she'd reform, and He didn't pray that she'd grow in grace and knowledge and mature to spiritual adulthood. Not knowing otherwise what Jesus would or would not do in each and every case, it is our duty to preach Christ and Him crucified. We do this knowing full well that we are in a battle for the hearts and souls of people and we need to treat it like a battle. So, while we are praying for these ministries, we will also call them on the carpet (as Paul did Peter when he showed favoritism) as necessary.

[Chadm]

Mrs Pilgrim I don't care what you say, I care how you say it. There are some on this site who respond Christlike in their words and attitude. Sadly there are many who respond arrogantly with a smart mouth. I have been guilty of that myself and for that I apologize. Some talk down to others with a self righteous attitude. Its my way or the highway attitude. No room for disagreement. Its ok to disagree on things, really it is.........The Bible says to avoid foolish talk and arguments. Anyone who disagrees with you, you attack. Your tone of voice is definitely heard in your posts. I don't want to be like that. So I will try harder to be more Christ-like in my words, thoughts and deeds......Also I referred to you stumbling. I'm sorry for using a word that did'nt suit your liking. I was refering to the time when you said on this site that you needed a break from this site for a while to get your attitude in check. You said you were writing things you shouldn't have. I don't think my last 2 sentences were exactly like you said it but I think you remember that posts. Don't you? To me when I slip up and say things that aren't Christ-like and I'm sorry for them, that means I stumbled.....I'm glad to see you have moved on and are better now......<'}}}><

[frankie]

Planetes,

I don't have a problem with "being on a different plot of ground" than you or anyone else on this site. I don't pretend to agree with every facet of the faith that you do. Here is the thing though, I do come to this site regularly....At first I came to look and see some of the nonsense, but the more I came back the more I see in some people this attitude of righteousness, of "I grasp God better than you do and your going to hell if you dont repent today"...My problem is the fact, just like Chadm said we need to be Christlike in word, thought and deed and many on this site, including me at times and for that I apologize to all of you, have not exuded that. When there is something we disagree with on this site and we can not confront them PERSONALLY....in a godly manner, not to bash them, than we need to make sure our words and deeds are Christlike. SO answer me this:

If Christ could not have talked to the money changers at the temple in person what would he have done? I don't think he would have put them down on a website....would he?

If Paul could not have talked to Peter personally about showing favoritism, would he have written about it in an epistle? I don't think he would have, so what would he have done.

I do believe the answer to both of these questions is prayer...they both, I believe, would have prayed to the Father to change the hearts of the people they had a disagreement with. This is what I pray for this website....If you think something does not line up to what the Bible says than it is ok to expose it, but what are you going to do with that? Are you going to complain about it and put them down on a forum, or are you going to pray for these people that if they are sinning they repent and turn back to the God who created them?

I feel one of them is being Christlike...the other is not. Oh, if you want to email them or call them then that is fine....just do it in love!! I promise from past experiences that they are more likely to listen!!

I hope I answered your question Planetes and I pray that you have a blessed day.

[Mrs. Pilgrim]

Chad, I realize that what I have to say probably won't make a lick of difference to you, as you've already made up your mind about the state of my soul, but...

You say that I attack anyone who disagrees with me, and you can discern my "tone of voice" from the things I write. That's odd, particularly as what you seem to think is my tone is, in fact, what you are reading into it. It is extraordinarily difficult to express a "tone" in writing, especially when it's an off-the-cuff written comment.

Now, what did you just "hear"? A toney, high-flown, starchy voice meant to make you feel small? Or did you hear a warm, gentle tone? Dry and clinical, emotionless? What did you "hear", Chad? (Guess what? It was "dry and clinical, emotionless"--just like when I pointed out that grammatical error of yours a while back.)

You say you don't want to be like me. Grand. I don't want you to be like me, either, just as I don't want to be like you. I want you to be like Jesus, in ALL His various aspects--in other words, appropriate in your reactions. I want that for you, me, and everyone.

One further thing: Please keep in mind that throwing in someone's face a vague admission of smitten conscience about something made a while back is a way of making sure that he doesn't publicly repent again, for fear of having it used against him. (Of course, I'm not so easily cowed as that, as I'm no longer so insecure. You will need to try a different tactic, if you want me to stop making disapproving comments about the things you wish to defend.) Keep that in mind, lest you cause a brother to harden his heart.

[Chadm]

Mrs. Pilgrim- I think all these readers have just heard your tone loud and clear. You have just made my point for me, thanks...

[Mrs. Pilgrim]

None is so deaf as one who hears what he wants to hear.

Thanks for proving me right, Chad. Nothing I said made any difference to you at all; I'm still the "bad guy" and you're the sugar-sweet saint--in your own mind.

[Wingnut]

Hey everyone - Thanks for proving my point! In the way you've all responded to me, you've shown that I'm right and you're not! Wait, what was my point again? No matter - I'm confident that people now know Christ because of my rightness on something...yippee!

[SoliDeoGloriaFella]

Hey,

Osteens membership wants their ears tickled. They ahve chosen him to do the tickling.

[Mrs. Pilgrim]

Wingnut's a perfect example of having an extremely bad, self-righteous attitude (insofar as he assumes that those who disagree with him are ALL like that). Let's see what Chad has to say to him.

Anyway, the post topic at hand...I've always been skeptical of the back half of "Jesus loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life." Either you're ignoring the possibility of martyrdom, as above, or you're not taking into consideration what "wonderful" means to your average person.

[Josh]

“Ok, that’s enough! Do I need to separate the three of you or are you gonna behave?” Hey, Ms. Pilgrim, I have enjoyed your post for some time and recently followed the link to your blog – now you and Ingrid Schlueter are my favorite bloggers. I have a tendency to be far too sarcastic at times, however, I do not feel that it is a terrible thing all the time. What we deal with is a tendency to be, and for lack of a better term, spineless. How many times have I been screamed at because I told a feminist that, by God’s Word, women are not to be the leaders of a church? A few to say the least. How many times have I been told that I’m hateful and narrow-minded because I say that Jesus is the only way to heaven? A few. How many times have I been called a bigot because I dare to speak out against homosexuality? Again, a few. What we say should be in love but never diluted. Some people think that if a person does not walk away with a warm feeling in the pit of their stomach, well, we were mean in our approach. People should dissect “the red letters” and the epistles and they will see very forward warnings spoken in the purest love not known to (most) men. We should never confuse niceness with appeasement, but I fear that is what has happened with some of our brothers and sisters. Much love to all.

[Mrs. Pilgrim]

Why, thank you, Josh.

I was done with the snark-fest, I promise. That's why the "Anyway."

But thanks for the reminder. Sarcasm is like explosives: Good for controlled use, but indiscriminately applied can make a mess.

[Dale Gehris]

Pilgrim, You are perfectly pithy. I LOVE IT!!!!! ;-)

[Mike]

I don’t normally read or participate in blogs, but after spending a considerable amount of time until late last night going through this website (and here I am again early this morning), I must say SOMETHING:

Some of you are angry with the curator and fellow commenters for pointing out what is CLEARLY going on with the modern-day “church”. But are you not seething with anger to see, at every turn, more and more false religion, all in the name of “Christianity”? I know I have been! And so many times I’ve wondered, “what is going on here?” and “doesn’t anyone else see how pathetic this is?” Yes, there’s the religious paraphernalia (as if having a cheesy plastic fish on your bumper is supposed draw people to the truth. NO, but rather it REPELS THEM – because something inside of them tells them “that” isn’t it!). And there’s the “christian” music! (Is the goal here to be “cool” and to get “Dove Awards”???) Yet this is only scratching the surface. It seems that everything the world does, the “church” has to imitate in some obnoxious way! (Why, I’m gonna go get my rectum pierced with a fish cabob just to “show my faith”).

You may not be drawn to old-time gospel music (neither am I, except for the sincerity, which is sadly lacking in most “contemporary christian” music!), but if you’re going to claim Christianity, get away from the lame, slithery, flakey, fakey, showboat, sticky TRASH that is so despised, not only by many of the visitors to this website, but also by the world! (Yes, they DESPISE IT! They want SOMETHING, but they know that “that” isn’t it – because it’s CHEESY!). So, Ms. Pilgrim and other “Religious Junk” defenders, please take your passion for defending folks like Joel Osteen and turn it toward defending THE TRUTH, which is something the world could RESPECT, and even be DRAWN TO!

Ms. Pilgrim, I have to add one more thing: It’s obvious that you, and other defenders of the mega-church leaders, are most likely (what is commonly referred to in pop christian teaching as) a “mercy”. You want to defend the “underdogs”. Perhaps you’ve held up traffic on freeway off ramps to give that homeless guy a few bucks, etc. Believe it or not, I am also one of those (and, yes, giving the homeless guy money for food IS a good thing). But after spending years defending anyone I felt was being picked on (gays, for example), I came to the realization that I could actually be defending and enabling sin! (By the way, both gays and Joel Osteen get enough defense through the news media – a clear indication there’s something wrong there) The “church” isn’t a victim! The true Church has been persecuted throughout the ages, but the modern-day, lie-peddling “church” is an instrument of Satan’s deception. You may some day come to the point of realizing this, or you may continue, for the rest of your life, defending the “poor” (rich) TBN preachers and scammers. But I hope you will realize that your defense of those “underdogs” is NOT a defense of Jesus Christ or His Church!

[DSz]

Ah Mike, I think you either have the wrong Ms. Pilgrim here, or misread her post(s). she is hardly a defender of Mr Osteen or Warren. Other than that, you're right on.

[DSz]

"Mrs. Jake, Thank you for your tasteful, mature comment. You have made a lot of sense to me. I am a huge Way of the Master fan, and was refered to this site from one of their sites. I enjoyed visiting this site. But recently, all the negativity has really bothered me. I know some negative needs exposed, but why dwell on all negative all the time? Oh well, to each his own. Maybe I need a break from this site also. As with Mrs. Pilgrim, I don't want act out in the flesh either, and if I have I apologiize. I wonder where all my negativity came from???????"

Chadm, January 24, 2008

I know you feel you need to 'stay the course but,ya'll REALLY need to take a break.

[Chadm]

DSz-God bless you and its really nice having you around. I appreciate your opposing points of view. I have enjoyed conversating with you. I hope you stay around for a long time.....Oh by the way, if I leave, who will mentor me? Who will set me straight on every view? I can't leave, I need you DSz. I need your guidance, your wisdom, your expertise. Thanks for all you do.....<'}}}><

[Joseph]

I really feel sorry for the people that sit in the congregation each Sunday when they leave out on Sunday they are unarmed.

[DSz]

Chad

Why do you come to this site. Is it not to mentor those who find Jesus junk offensive to understand the error of their ways and become enlightened to your way of thinking. I can only assume it is since you post in so many threads telling others that this item or that item isn’t evil and that they should change their view; that the host of this site is wrong and should change the site to what you think that it should be. You don’t just offer your opinion, you feel the need to correct those who hold a different opinion and then scold them for returning your sarcasm. You act as if you are engaged in some great campaign to which you must ‘stay the course’. Seriously, why to you find the need to come to this site? I would really like to know.

[Chadm]

DSz- Why do you come to this site? Is it not to mentor those who find dwelling on negativity offensive and to make them understand the error of their ways and become enlightened to your way of thinking? I can only assume it is since you posts so many threads telling others than this item or that item IS evil and that they should change their view; that the host of this site is right and should keep the site as it should be. You just don't offer your opinion, you feel the need to correct those who hold a different opinion and then scold them for returning your sarcasm. You act as if you are engaging in some great campaign to which you must 'stay the course' to try and eliminate anyone on this site that differs from you. Seriously, why do you come to this site? Is it to be enlightened by the works of darkness to grow in Christ, or is it to ramble on, making fun of Jesus Junk, laughing and carrying on, dwelling on the negative of the church,sarcasm, etc.? I would really like to know........

[DSz]

Chad,

I will assume from your attempt to explain your reasons for coming to this site by saying ’you do it to nyah-nyah’ an admission that you agree with my statements.

Just for the record, I have posted in about 6 threads on this site since November; my post total is under 10. I don’t fit your description.

My use of ‘stay the course’ came directly from your response when I recommended that you take your own advise (not mine) to take a break.

I have never defended the host of the site merely tried, unsuccessfully in your case, to explain why I and others (including the host of this site to be sure) find the use of scripture to sell merchandise, offensive.

I come to this site occasionally because I find it a helpful reminder of how silly modern American Christianity has become. I also find some of the comments humorous and some of the critiques of the self-help and emergent church helpful.

I am glad that you are comfortable with your participation here. I will no longer trouble you with my comments.

Just one caution though, I wouldn’t use the term ‘God bless you’ as you did in your post above as a form of sarcasm, that’s really offensive.

Carry on.

[Higg]

I was surfing the web searching for something - not sure what. Do Christians always argue with each other like this - kinda sarcatic and mean? I don't think I wanna be one. Guess I'll keep Googling on till I find what I'm looking for.

[carol]

I've been hearing about Mrs. Pastor Osteen lately on TV and reading about her in the paper and on the internet. Her civil trial has come up. Remember back in 2005 the family was going to Vail, Colorado and she was accused of assaulting a flight attendant. They were in first class (nothing but the best for the prosperity preachers, right?) and there was a spot on Victoria's seat. She wanted it cleaned off right away. It seems it wasn't quick enough for Mrs. Pastor Victoria and she pushed the flight attendant and hurt her, trying to get to the cockpit. Mr. Pastor Osteen had to get between his wife and the flight attendant. Can you imagine doing that? Anyone else would have been thrown in prison for life. They got kicked off the plane although they said they left voluntarily. She had to pay a fine of $3,000. The flight attendant is suing her for a tenth of what she's worth (a tithe). It's going to be interesting following the trial. If she loses, I'm sure the prosperity church members will gladly take up a "love offering" to compensate for what money she would lose plus more. Surely they would want the Osteen's to continue to have their "best life now."

[chadm]

carol- I can feel the excitment in your words about how you have already prejudged Mrs. Pastor Osteen. What ever happen to innocent until proven guilty. Especially amongst us christians. I do not agree with the Osteens at all, but I do realize that they have influence on lots of lives and I pray that God will open their eyes to the truth and lead these people in ALL Truth. Should us christians jump on the bandwagon of persecuting our own with the world? If we don't agree with Osteen, fine, should we slander,curse and wish harm or worse HELL upon him? Joel Osteen may be preaching a fluff message, but is he going to hell? I know his judgement will be worse for not preaching 100% truth, but is that deserving Hell? If he is not hesding for hell that means he is our brother, lets surround our brother in prayer. Maybe our prayers could help his eyes open....Maybe?

[carol]

We all deserve Hell, chadm. They will not go through judgement or punishment if they are Christians because Jesus washed away the sins of Christians by His death on the cross. If they are not Christians they will be judged and and senteced.
Mrs. Pastor Osteen is in a leadership position. Since she has chosen to live her life in a fishbowl, she has to have the responsibility to handle it. She already had to pay a fine. So she was innocent until she was proven guilty. She wouldn't have had to pay it if she didn't do something inappropriate. The flight attendant said it caused her to question her own Christian faith. Mrs. Pastor Osteen caused a person to stumble. This is no secret. This is out in newspapers and on the TV news. I didn't make this up. Prayer for them would help but so far they haven't chosen to repent.
I want to refer you to the above post by Chris: "Doesn't the Bible Say Not to Judge?"

[Barbara]

Likewise, teach the older women to be reverent in the way they live, not to be slanderers or addicted to much wine, but to teach what is good. Then they can train the younger women to love their husbands and children, to be self-controlled and pure, to be busy at home, to be kind, and to be subject to their husbands, so that no one will malign the word of God. -- Titus 2:3-5

But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not. -- 2 Peter 2:1-3

Seems Chris is a lot nicer about it than Peter was.

[chadm]

Carol- You say "They will not go through judgement or punishment if they are Christians because Jesus washed away the sins of Christians by His death on the cross." You say this with such authority as you are 100% correct. The problem is ,is that scripture says otherwise. 2 Cor 5:10 says "For we must ALL appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may recieve what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad." You see the bible is clear on the fact that we will All stand in judgment. This judgment is not about heaven or hell. This is a judgment is for rewards for things done good or bad. This is the judgment that I was refering to in my previous post. I know you will probably accuse me of judging you for pointing out that you are speaking deceit. But maybe you should research your views with scripture before you speak so matter of factly.

[carol]

chadm.-So, you don't think Jesus washed our sins and guilt away by His death and resurrection? YOU wrote about judging Osteen and quote: " should we slander,curse and wish him harm or worse wish HELL upon him?. Joel Osteen may be preaching a fluff message but is he going to hell?" I was obviously referring to the judgement of HEAVEN and HELL because THAT WAS YOUR QUESTION. I was referring to Revelation 20:11-15. The people who's names are not written in the Lamb's Book of Life will be thrown into the lake of fire. The others will spend eternity in Heaven with Christ where there is NO unhappiness. Revelation 21:4 "And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." That, plus verses 1-3, happens to be my favorite passage in the Bible. There are your verses which ARE 100% correct.
You sound as though we will have unhappiness and punishment in Heaven. We will be judged for our rewards but that's a different judgement, APART from sending the guilty to Hell, and it was NOT your question. Your question was about wishing Osteen to Hell.
My last line was for you personally judging me. See how many ways the word "judging" is used?
Here: BRICK WALL. now, knock yourself out arguing.

[chadm]

My initial post was refering to the eagerness of many to judge Osteen to Hell. My point is , how can someone do that when they don't know. Osteen is off in lots of his teachings but does that make it ok for us to wish hell on him. Or think he is going to hell. That was my point. I think Osteen is saved. His judgement will be greater for what comes out of his mouth. But Hell....... I can't say and neither can you.....

[ida]

What in the world! wishing Osteen to hell? who are you that uses this kind of language? for sure not a christian"
I am reading Osteen's, book( How to be a better you) He speaks truth, He is of good judgement and by the way, these things and testimony's he claims are so true, it is so comon to every ones life who wants to improve their behaviour and be more tolerant more understanding, more compassionate, these advice give a chance to become a better person, and thats being better than being a dumfounded idiot!it is so clear ,He speaks of good comon sense, and it is working for me!I am a mother of 5 , way up in age, (won't tell) and still at times I need to improve my behaviour toward people, We are so human! we need to learn to understand who we are, and where we want to be in life.and what is it all about, and learn to do every thing as unto Christ! nothing wrong w/ that!He Joel" is a good mentor to (his exstended family)also to his very own in this, I am glad to be one of them, even tho I don't go to his church!I like what he says.not ticling my ear, he tells truth!
Some time walking in a store, I see people smiling at me" I think uh! my good humor must be showing today! so I smile back!
it feels good!I think then I am going to make sure my love is real every day! THAT IS TO CHECK MY ATTITUDES,every day and my heart toward God and how I feel about my nieghbor "first my family",If not good< I must confess to God my ugly toughts, and heart, ask for forgiveness and that means my ugly feelings toward "anyone! and also ,learning more self control at home! that starts the day!
I find that his comments and suggestions are beneficial ,and also very informative all the way!and give's good councel (they are GODLY) they are true! If you don't think so! check your heart!Ida

[Barbara]

Ida, no one is wishing him to hell. We're praying that he repents of the unbiblical doctrine he teaches. Even he freely admits that he's not all that familiar with Scripture and yet he's leading thousands, if not millions, of people into territory that they think is Christian because it contains "good advice" and is "uplifting" and "makes them feel good" and uses nice religious words and some measure of truth in there, but which leaves out vital, noncompromisable, Biblical principles that lead to genuine salvation and redemption (which alone will break the power and hold of sin and the world in the life of the new creature that you become once born again. Need advice? The Book of Proverbs is cheaper and filled with more genuine, Godly wisdom than a library of self-help books). Joel Osteen gives life advice - that's fine. He should be a motivational speaker, as mentioned above. But to call himself a pastor puts him in a place of higher accountability before God. The old Puritan preachers recognized that and approached the pulpit in fear and trembling. Nowadays people miss that completely, or else they think it doesn't apply.

It does. How do I know? The Bible tells me so.

[wretch like me]

May we all live lives worthy of true persecution. May I suggest we do as Christ did? A bruised reed he did not break, a smoking flax he did not quench. Leave them to Jesus he will take care of them.

[j.t.]

back to Pastor Zaur Balaev...

I spent 3 days last week with him in his home in Aliabad. As part of a church to church evangelistic mission trip i went with Pastor Balaev to a few homes in his village and shared my testimony. He was released in March of 08 and has not altered his life of commitment to Christ.

His time in jail (about 10 months ) was never a topic of discussion as we travelled around North-western Azerbaijan and stopped occasionally to break bread with others. Truly one of the most humble men i have ever met and a real inspiration to those who feel threatened to live their faith out loud.

[TKR]

I'd have no problem with Mr Osteen if he'd recognise he's in the wrong job, and go peddle his wares to the self-help communities instead - but of course, he won't ever do that - not because he thinks he's saving souls in the church, but because it's his financial security and if he left to start up a motivational self-help business, he'd never pull in the crowds or volume of money he does through the church - it's providing the perfect stage for him in so many ways. But as was pointed out before, he's hugely guilty of making people feel the Gospel is all about them, and not about Jesus (who rarely gets a sensible mention). Personally I find his syrupy voice off-putting and tediously tiresome to listen to, and don't know how his audience don't get bored hearing the same drivel pushed at them in different guises, but suspect they're somewhat hypnotised by that voice!!

[Carleton H.]

Honestly I think this site and the person who made this site is putting words in other's mouths. Joel Osteen didn't twist anything around. It makes me nauseated to see people like this putting down positive thinking preachers. I know this comment won't be put up on the site, because the owner of this site only wants to put up what makes HIM/HER look like the right person, and that everyone else is wrong. By the way, quite a site you have here. I didn't learn anything from it :-S