Bowing to the 'god' of Cultural Relevance

Comments

[theologien]

yes, let's throw the four spiritual laws at them, shake the dust off our feet, and go home.

[Linda]

Making the church relevant???? This isn't even church!!!!

So they "make" the kids listen to a short message about God. How will that compete with hours of heavy metal? I know, I know--the "politically correct" thing is to believe that even if ONE kid gets the message, it was worth it. Pish-tosh.

That event did nothing to give those lost kids any hope for a life in Christ. It did nothing to create a desire to learn more about Him. It did nothing to present the church as a place of refuge, fellowship, encouragement, and love. To them, church is still boring, Jesus Christ is an epithet, and the church building is simply another building.

[Isaac]

What are these people going to do when a head-banging youngster comes in to their regular Sunday service and the organ is playing?

Human-kind is so sinful - we will do absolutely anything (and I mean ANYTHING) to get out of personal evangelism. You know... actually talking to your neighbour about Christ calling them to repentance and faith.

I have used the line "...if one person 'makes a decision' then it was worth it." And it is true. There is no length too extreme for the sake of even one soul. SO FAR AS it doesn't contradict God's written revelation.

And this Church has done just that. It is totally in the opposite direction to what the bible teaches to invite sinners INTO church. I mean, the word Church in the bible literally means "an assembly of Christians gathered for worship in a religious meeting." How then is it even possible to bring a non-Christian to Church? It is not and we shouldn't. Of course if they come in of their volition, fine.

Finally, as a musician I don't see anything wrong with Heavy Metal music. Except for two points: 1. where the lyrics are anti-biblical/anti-Christian. 2. Where the lyrics are unintelligible – I think this is where it isn’t sinful in and of itself it’s more that people don’t know what they are saying and can be interpreted as Satanic for example. The music itself is neither sinful nor holy. It is the lyrics that make it such.

[DJackson]

We knew that these kids wouldn't step foot into a church, therefore we went to them, and witnessed to them at a rock concert.

Stop trying to get the unholy within the church, but let the holy go out and seek and save the unholy.

[George Howard]

Even as a musician that likes hip hop/hard rock.that was ridiculous and seeker sensative.I do n ot beleive the church building is a evangelism tool.I prefer my concerts,even christian hard rock concerts in a bar or secular setting where they are .We go where the sinners are not trick them in.What ever you bring them in w/ you will have to keep them w/

[Shma]

I am speachless. Did anyone else notice the guy yelling & making devil signs. We are to be in the world not of the world. Yes they should feel welcome & encourged to come to church "as they are" but christians should not act as non-christians (or if you want to seeker-friendly the un-churched) to try & reach them. I don't remember any of the apostles sacrificing to idols to reach people.

[pastor frank]

This is nothing new. When I was in high school and unsaved, I was a metal musician. My friends band, who had openly satanic lyrics, frequently played shows in the basement of St. Pius Catholic Church. This was in 1987-88....so sadly, this is not a new phenomenon.

[Robert M. Warren]

Until I saw the second part, I thought Tominthebox (http://tominthebox.blogspot.com/) had branched into video.

[Tyler]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that there was no Christ in that event, at all. Those kids were trashing that church and most likely didn't give a rats butt what language they were using, and they probably didn't care that the event was at "some church." All they were there for was for moshing and hard rock.

Gotta go, the Rockies just won the pennant. woo hoo!

[JfTheophilus from GodsKingdomNow.com]

hmmm.. I think it's worth keeping in mind that this is a "battle of the bands" not church service (unless I misunderstood); secondly, as Isaac made mention, there's nothing wrong with Heavy Metal in & of itself.

Now, culturally relevant? I think that's just a poor understanding. Christianity makes all things subservient to it, not that it's a servant to culture. In other words think about it this way: I want to know about the Creator, the one who possibly makes demands of me & requires my worship... I'm going to base that searching on whether or not God likes heavy metal? boo that.

The arts are part of Christianity. God doesn't mind us being artistic. But the arts are subservient to Christianity, not the other way around.

[Frankie]

"How then is it even possible to bring a non-Christian to Church? It is not and we shouldn't."

HUH!?!?! So, if there should be no non-christians at church, how come you have an invitation for people to accept Christ every Sunday? Why are you doing Baptism at your church? How many people have you personally told the good news to and converted?

So, you have "to get right with Jesus" to come to church? Christ NEVER said that at all!! All He said was "follow me."

Some of you guys need to read this post...although you probably will disagree with it.

http://www.vinceantonucci.com/2007/10/more-from-bar.html

[Thank you for loving Jesus]

If you know your history you begin to realize that there truly is nothing new under the sun. Germany in the 1930's marginalized one Christian denomination after another until the Lutherans stood alone. When the Lutherans finally tried to stand up for what is right, Hitler had complete control of the country. Millions of Jews and others were killed as the world and the church stood by. A new state religion existed based on the occult! Hitler had many ties with the Muslims in the Middle East who supported this extermination of Jews and opposed the creation of the state of Israel as put forth by the Balfour Declaration after World War I. Post Modern thinkers today say, "We have to appeal to the younger generations by adapting to the culture,to make the church relevant to them." New Age occult writers (e.g. Alice Bailey - Problems of Humanity, last chapter titled: The Church)of the twentieth century said the same thing in pushing their ecumenical movement to bring "unity" to the worlds religions to make way for the "Christ" to come. Hitler's Germany of the 1930's, the New Age writers of the twentieth century, or post modern religionists today have many things in common.(or should I say uncommon)... God's word says, "Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it." These youth need the solid message of Jesus Christ. It is evident that they need a Savior.

[Ruth]

Ephesians 4:17 So I tell you this, and insist on it in the Lord, that you must no longer live as the Gentiles do, in the futility of their thinking. 18 They are darkened in their understanding and separated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardening of their hearts. 19 Having lost all sensitivity, they have given themselves over to sensuality so as to indulge in every kind of impurity, with a continual lust for more.
20 You, however, did not come to know Christ that way. 21 Surely you heard of him and were taught in him in accordance with the truth that is in Jesus. 22 You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; 23 to be made new in the attitude of your minds; 24 and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.

ENOUGH SAID!

[Neil]

To know Christ...is to completely deny yourself of the things of this world. There has to be a change. Church was never meant to be relevant with today's culture. If anything, church should be the "reality" center of everyone. The reality that everything that the world offers are just smoking mirrors because in the end, it all boils down to this. Where do you want to spend your eternity when you die?? That's it! That's where it boils down. It's the reality that the church must share and spread, the hope of salvation in Jesus Christ.

This is very disappointing and frustrating that even church leaders do not fully understand the role of church in the society. We are not to blend in, but to stand out! And if people hate us for it, persecute us for our faith, even kill us for our faith, it is all worth it. To live is for Christ and to die is gain.

[fourpointer]

It wouldn't surprise me any if the non-Christians who came had more of an influence on the church-going kids than the other way around. If I had to guess, the headbanging kids that went were thinking something like, "Wow! They're having this in a CHURCH! Hey, do you think we can score some church girls while we're there? Whoa, too cool!" Why don't they just join up with the Metropolitan Community Church and complete their apostasy? The one protester who had the sign reading "Ichabod" nailed it right on the head.

Psalm 1:1--"Blessed is the man who walks not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor stands in the path of sinners, nor sits at the table of scorners."

[Dan Lirette]

My name is Dan Lirette and I'm the individual in the second part of the video who led the protest against the Battle of Bands at the Moncton Wesleyan Church in Moncton, NB, Canada.

I'm aware of the intricate details more so than those posting in favor of the Battle of the Bands.... let me explain:

1- The church is a large one in our city and their actions, as all local churches in our city, bear a direct impact on the others. The actions of the Moncton Wesleyan directly affected our city's churches in a manner which was not consistent with the Gospel of Jesus Christ which calls us to lay down the ways of the world (2 Corinthians 6).

2- One of the Pastors of the church in email to me admitted to "many mistakes", so to speak, in holding the event, and yet at the pulpit, this same pastor applauded the event to defend the criticism leved against the church by other churches; this is hypocritical.

3- The battle of the bands was secular, with secular heavy metal being played while teens moshed and screamed and yelled and busted a pew; there was no sense of the Presence of God nor Conviction of the Holy Spirit corporately.

4- The youth pastor at the time, Mark Moore, used the word "friggin" while speaking to the teens, which cannot be debated that such a useage is a replacement for the "F" word; this is concerning.

5- The winner of the battle of the bands got to record a secular heavy metal album as the prize, thus furthering the agenda of the devil in the lives of young people.

6- The "Gospel" preached at the event did not call the youth to Repentance, and this is the greatest problem with the event itself, as the easy-believism Gospel only calls you to believe, without telling you that unless you repent and lay your life down for Jesus that you cannot be saved. Removing Repentance from the Gospel shows you in fact are not preaching the Biblical Gospel and are leading people to Hell, rather than to Salvation (Luke 24).

There are many other issues, but these are the primary ones, and it is disturbing to see a church "reach" teens by calling them to believe in Jesus while moshing to secular heavy metal and not bringing them to the True Gospel, which calls all men everywhere to Repent.

God bless.

Dan
www.icminternational.org

[Mike D.]

Thanks, Dan, for your comments.

I was going to mention that I found the youth "pastor's" comments way out of bounds for sharing God with these kids. His use of the word "friggin" was embarrassing lame as he tried to "connect" with these kids. As well, his statement "Did we ever friggin tell you that you couldn't wear studded bracelets? No! We want you to come as you are" was counter to everything that Christ taught. Statements like this just reinforce the easy-believeism that you can stay just as you are (sinful, unregenerate) and add Jesus to your life as well! Wow... what a bargain.

Mike D.

[James]

If the youth pastor wanted to be relevant, why did he say "friggin" instead of "f***ing". I mean if he wants to connect with the kids, shouldn't he be using the language that they are using and not be a pretender.
I mean, the kids hate hypocrites.
Come to think of it, so did Jesus.

[Shma]

Dan,

Thank you so much for sharing & for your strong stand for the Lord!!! You are an encourgement to us!!!

[Lane Chaplin]

If the people that hosted this event feared the Lord it would "draw the younger generation back" because the younger generation would see that the "culturally relevant" aren't hypocrites. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of all wisdom and knowledge, and by it people depart from evil. The lack of the fear of the Lord is the heart of this whole "relevant, seeker-sensitive" mentality.

[elephantschild]

When I hear of stories like this, my heart just breaks for the faithful in these congregations.

A few weeks ago I nearly wept while visiting a relative's church: a dear elderly married couple, both exceeding 80 years in age, struggling to "sing" with the wildly "relevant" praise/rock band doing the service. I'm 33, and *I* could barely follow the band. Neither could my husband, and he has a degree in music.

Churches are not "reaching" youth in this manner: they are instead abusing their faithful members who can and would, were they being well-fed in the Word and Sacrament, reach the hearts of the unchurched and "seekers."

[Fr. John]

"When the Lutherans finally tried to stand up for what is right, Hitler had complete control of the country. Millions of Jews and others were killed as the world and the church stood by. A new state religion existed based on the occult! "

Oh, please, not this interminable, "six million Christ-killers" suffered at the hands of occultists clap-trap again! How can I take someone seriousy, who both wants to place the blame for the woes of our current culture on a bunch of sixty-year old dead Germans, and then gives GLORY to a music style that is as demonic as can be, at the same time while we IGNORE the fact that it was the JEWISH culture that gave the world 'tin pan alley' brought out the whore house 'rags' to a white audience (Scott joplin made his living providing entertainment in brothels) and it was Jews who took rock and roll bigtime, in the first place- via the sodomite namager who controlled the Beatles, who also introduced them to drugs and 'eastern mysticism' which then paved the way for all the REST of the '60's generation to do same, etc. etc. etc., And today, it is the Jewish heads of corporations who now spew the FILTH that is known as 'rap music' (an oxymoron if ever there was one!) on the masses of White American Youth!!! (Viacom, Sumner Redstone, CBS, Disney (under Eisner) etc.

I am almost done with a Doctorate in Music, as well as my studies in theological subjects, and I can say what I say based on my rigourous academic background. At least historical Protestant denominations (high-church Lutherans, Anglicans, etc.) kept REAL music, instead of this LCD variety, and understood that music can cause an individual to SIN, as the church fathers noted, back in the fourth century! Schmul Publishing has a book by a Protestant author, that clearly REFUTES all of this GARBAGE, and does so in a sane, and theologically informed manner. But even the more 'touchy-feely' publishers asked 'Can God be in Rock Music" back in the 1970's and NO ONE LISTENED THEN! (I remember a book by Bethany House, or Tyndale with that title back then...)

The reason this type of 'worship' exists, is because most "Evan-jelly-goos" are ANTINOMIAN to the core, and are 'playing Church' - inventing their worship contrary to biblical and historical norms, and then excusing their apostasy by saying it is 'god-glorifying.' Well, the 'outing' of the leader of the NAE from such a 'praise and worship' church as a butt-banger who hired a male WHORE, is clear enough indication that this 'worship' merely worships the golden calf of self-indulgence, and has NO theological or biblical ties to the worship that is 'decent and in order' as St. Paul requires of us.

"COME OUT OF HER, MY PEOPLE, THAT YE BE NOT PARTAKERS OF HER SINS."

[missy]

Fr. John, thank you for getting down to the nitty-gritty.
In this dumbed-down culture it is so rare to find someone who isn't afraid to tell the whole story.

[Isaac]

I know how easy it is, through this medium, to have plenty of "truth" but not much "with love". So I'll assume that behind your post, Fr. John is the deepest concern.

Fr. John: "JEWISH culture that gave the world... [whorehouses etc.]" - Of all people, we Christians should know the foolishness of such broad-brush arguments. How many times have you been told: "Well, Christians have caused so many wars..." true or not, the premise that you can judge a faith (or a group of people) by the actions of a few is foolish indeed.

Having studied "rigorously" you should note that it isn’t a ‘practicing’ (for lack of a better term) that does these things, for they are clear violations of the Law. In Jesus’ day they would have been called “sinners” – non-practicing Jews. Atheist Jews. You can hardly slam Jewish Culture because of the action of the irreligious Jews.

I disagree that Heavy Metal is inherently sinful. What is the music but a collection of (musical) chords, played quickly with the top and bottom of the Sine wave chopped off (distortion). A fast back-beat and a bass line. Nothing there that is inherently sinful. It is when you add lyrics that things get a little dicey. For surely organ music or hip-hop or classical music on its own is no more nor less sinful... until lyrics are added, whether they are God-glorifying or devil-worshipping (or neither).

I may not be reading you right but you seem to be saying that Rock music is unacceptable as worship music. I heartily disagree. Simply because of what I have written before. It is the lyrics that determine whether a song is Godly or not. Not the music.

[Lygia Bradnick]

That was not church. That was a rock concert. Nothing else. A rock concert should be called exactly that and not a church service. They are opposites.There is no way any of those kids would find Jesus there, learn about the Holy Spirit, have their lives changed or anything else to do with God. I think God is grieved by what is called church these days.
Just wait because the wrath is sure going to fall.

[Glen]

I love music and I listen to a variety of styles including some secular music---HOWEVER---the purpose of the church is NOT to have a Rock concert for unbelievers! The church is a place of worship, fellowship, and teaching for believers. "Seekers" are welcome and should be encouraged to come however the purpose of the church should not change to suit their tastes and interests. We are to go out and reach unbelievers with the love of Christ-not change our churches so that unbelievers want to come to them.

[anmarie]

Wow....you couldn't make up a better example of apostasy. These children are being led astray. And I saw one of them giving praise to the devil with his hands.

God has a place in His heart for children.

Matthew 18:6 (King James Version)

6But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.