Osteen Said What?

Comments

[Chris]

This is really disturbing... Even if Jesus' death provided XYZ benefits, to fail to even so much as mention the eternal salvation from God's Judgement we rightly deserve is cause for serious concern

[Jim from OldTruth.com]

Excellent job putting those subtitles in the video. Those really help people to understand the false gospel that's being delivered, in a step by step way. Keep up the great work on this blog.

[Alan]

I agree that Joel teaches a prosperity gospel that is dangerous, but I think some of his statements are taken out of context in this video. Most of your Scripture's are talking about us before being in Christ, where he is talking about Christians, who are redeemed. Now, he does speak too far when he says that our lives should be perfect and without any struggles, but at the same time I think those of us in the conservative circlces do need to remember that Christ bought us in order to live as children of the King. What that looks like is a lot different than what Joel says, but it is still a fact that we sometimes forget.

[Val]

Alan,

This video doen't mis-quote Osteen. And we Christians must still confess our sins, confess that we are sinners and avail ourselves of Christ's mercy and forgiveness. Romans 7 is the prime example of how we Christians still struggle with our sinful nature.

Osteen is feeding his flock false doctrine.

[Alan]

Val,
I fully agree with you that Olsteen preaches a gospel that is not Truth. My simple point is that the angle of saying he focuses too much comfort in Christianity is not the best angle because we don't preach enough victory in the Gospel. I understand the truth of Romans 7 because I find myself there every day. However, in another sense there is the victory and assurance found in Christ. Olsteen doesn't apply that concept well, but it is found in Scripture. Yes, he did completely blow the Ephesians 1 passage, and he preaches many false doctrines, but I don't think this video does the best job of drawing those false teachings out. Olsteen says many other things much more slanderous to the Gospel (i.e. like Jesus isn't the only way to salvation--see his interview on Larry King). In case my point isn't entirely clear: Olsteen says several things in this video that are completely false, like God doesn't want you to be sick, but there are many more severe errors in this theology that should have and could have been drawn out. I simply think this video finds reasons to slander him. We who are more spiritual should restore those who error with gentelness and compassion--not humiliation or slander (Gal. 6:1)

[IndependentConservative]

I took a lot of work, but I found a translation that has the words Osteen used for Ephesians 1:4 and I'm shocked Osteen used this translation. Well actually, I'm not shocked because it's Joel Osteen, excuse me for thinking for a moment that he was a true minister of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

The Message translation. It's one single man's effort (Eugene H. Peterson) to translate the Bible as he saw it. Check out what he says:

...
He often asked himself, "If Paul were the pastor of my church, how would he say this?" or "If Jesus were here teaching, what would it sound like?"
...

It's not a word for word translation, but an effort to make an impacting translation as one guy sees it. He says he wanted to bring out small things and it seems exciting people was his real goal.

He says it's not meant to replace you current version of choice. It's interesting that Osteen is using it for sermons, when I doubt that was the translator's intent.

No disrespect intended towards the translator, but you can tell that he pretty much made some stuff up as he went along.

I want to get deeper into the Greek myself, but one man's translation probably should not be used for sermons.

Obviously Osteen found it fits prosperity doctrine better than other efforts at translation out there.

[IndependentConservative]

It seems the links I placed in my comment do not appear here. But if you look up details about that translation you'll come to a similar conclusion.

Mr. Peterson wanted to create an enticing version of the Bible that even he admits is not a translation, but a mixture of translation and paraphrase, changing terms as he saw fit, to make the words of the Bible sound like a modern day story. His site about the translation even notes as an example, that he changed "dwelt among us" to "lived in our neighborhood", because he felt the later was more modern and the former is only used in the Bible. Can't say I'll be making use of Mr. Peterson's work.

[Once4all]

I think your method of subtitling actual clips of false teachers with the truth of God's word is an excellent idea. I'd like to see more of it. This method should work better to convince the followers of these false teachers that what they say is contrary to the word of God. Simply telling them that someone is a false teacher will only make them defensive; however, showing them is a little harder to deny.

[Scott]

Joel Osteen and other prosperity gospel speakers, preach that through Christ we can be wealthy, full, happy, and filled with a high self-esteem. Of course this is the complete opposite of what Jesus taught in the Beatitudes. Immediately after that Jesus pronounces woes:

Luke 6:24- “But woe to you who are rich, for you have received your consolation.”

:25- “Woe to you who are full now, for you shall be hungry. Woe to you who laugh now, for you shall mourn and weep.”
:26- “Woe to you, when all people speak well of you, for so their fathers did to the false prophets.”

[sibert]

I wonder what brother Osteen would have to say to the widows of the Martyrs in Turkey?

[Zachary]

2 Cor.12:7-10
a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I be exalted above measure.
2Cr 12:8 Concerning this thing I pleaded with the Lord three times that it might depart from me.
2Cr 12:9 And He said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness." Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
2Cr 12:10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in needs, in persecutions, in distresses, for Christ's sake. For when I am weak, then I am strong.

[Tony Rose]

This is pure heresy.

tr

[Harlan Daniels]

Joel needs to repent from his false doctrine and spend more time in scripture and less time preaching. If you can call it preaching?

[Liquidity]

Be very careful.

You need only to wonder on one of your titles. If the scriptures says "we WERE dead in our sins and transgressions... EPHS 2:1"... then that would imply we ARE now something else. What are we now? Not sinners? I sin almost every moment.

We WERE dead. We are now ALIVE.

Alive? Alive in heaven? Look around. You are still here on this green Earth.

Alive to live HERE in Christ. And to live in Christ means to live a life of excellence. "Be perfect as God is perfect". A life of excellence in thought and deed.

I totally understand the very thin line between feeling convicted and feeling condemend. I was raised Catholic and struggle with this all the time. BUT I know that we are not made to wallow in the acknowledgement of our sins all the time. Have you truly repented? Then does not God say He puts our sins far from Him as "...east is from the west and will remember your sins no more"???

The devil would love for everyone to stay there. Yes of course we all suck and can't help but sin. That's a given.

But even those thoughts become sin when we use them as an excuse to stay sick, poor and stuck.

Constantly demeaning yourself is ridicuous since you are basically insulting God since we are "made in His image".
So if we are made in His image, why then do we settle with all these problems we usually bring upon ourselves? In debt? Over weight? poor job?

Yes, God works with everything and through everything to make us more like Christ. But sometimes He leaves you somewhere until you are sick and tired of basking in your own self pity. Think prodigal son here. That's the example Jesus gave. We have royalty rights. We are just too blind by our own sin to see them and return to Him.

I think there are many things wrong with Joel Olsteen. I would only recommend him for people who come from a heavy Catholic background and/or have a strong foundation in the basic tenets of Christianity.

Yes I got that I am sinner saved by grace. Okay??? that's where you/your blog seems to want to keep me. But in actuality it is only the first step.

There are BY PRODUCTS of submitting and trying to follow Christ's excellence.

Does that mean I am going to get a better job? well, I will try and better my skill set and improve my situation. Does it mean I should just except my sicknesses? No, I am going to try and lose weight and offset the chance of diabetes, etc.

There are no gaurantees of course. And that's fine. But, I do not want to be the servant trusted with one talent who buried it in the ground.

So go for that better job. Seek out ways to improve your health (your body is the temple of God), etc etc.

John 10:10 "I come that they may have life and life more abundantly".

What "abundant life" is He referring to???? Obviously things He provides in this world. But never to excess or use in sin.

If you are looking to start with a SOLID Christian foundation, DO NOT watch Olsteen. Instead read material from people like Charles Stanley, C.S Lewis, Watchman Nee etc. Mostly everything from these men are excellent.

But in reference to this blog/Olsteen video, be careful of staying immature and constantly licking your wounds. God knows all about your sins. Time to repent, turn around and follow Christ's example.

[Alex]

If you judge Joel Osteen in a negative way you should not claim that he is not biblically based when it is clear that it is you who are not biblically based. If you are so eager to judge Joel Osteen, maybe you should compare your own life with his! (Matt. 7:3) What have you done to help thousands of people like he has? Do you just sit around and complain instead about doing something about loving people yourself?
What you need to understand is that Joel's mission, he said, is not to teach deep theology about the cross or christianity. It is about encouraging people, and since the greatest command in the bible is to love your fellow man I see nothing wrong with his message. The bible doesn't call us hypocrites if we don't shove the gospel down people's throats! That is what alienates alot of people. I know, because I live in the most secularised country in the world; Sweden. Perhaps the simple message of Joel is the first spurt out of the door that people need as christians. We can't excel until we have learned the basics, and so Joel might be laying the foundation for several people's faith that will eventually blossom into full maturity. He is biblically based if you have ever listened to a single one of his sermons. He quotes scripture all the time in his sermons. But it is in a simple and very understandable way for both uneducated and educated. If you are judging Joel's message as an educated man you should realize that not everyone understands deep theology that is taught about the cross in most churches. Sometimes this repeated teaching can be crippling. (Heb:6) That is why the originality and loving message of Joel is what so many listen to. Down at the grassroots where it is needed.

[Mrs. Jake]

Alex, Read Hebrews 5. Allow God to wean you from the milk and onto the solid food of true Biblical teaching. Desire the deep things of God. One of the ways that Satan is using to deceive the immature believers is through prooftexting "pastors" like Osteen who tell their sheep what their itching ears want to hear. Everything is just rosy until a bridge collapses under you, and then where is "Your Best Life Now?"

[Alex]

I have read Hebrews 5. Did you read Matt. 7:3?
I can say that I was a person who needed milk before he could take the next step. I was an immature believer, because I hadn't learned the basics, and I never would have without Osteens "in your face" message. It was a need wake-up call for me. The christian walk is a gradual process, and until you can defeat the first basic mind-loops of Satan's lies, you will be stuck the rest of your life in whatever junk that has gotten you where you are.

Besides you need to understand the context of Heb. 5. If you take it out of its historical context it becomes a faulty parallell, nothing more.

Joel Osteen helped me out of my depression. If anyone is watered down, it is the people who are still stuck in it because they hate themselves. Its an epidemic that I was a statistic in, and JO recognizes that, unlike you who only think about yourselves. Thank God for him! Thank God for separating the whiners from the doers. You sir, are a whiner. If you really cared about what God wanted to do with your life, you wouldn't be criticising people for the sake of yourself. Instead you would be out there feeding every homeless man on the street, until your bank-account was empty. That is the sign of a true follower of Christ! Someone who walks, not ONLY talks. But if the lord keeps providing when you keep doing his will, sometimes his favor will outweigh the acts faster than you have time to react on. That, I believe is what happened to JO when he wrote his book. The truth is that the more you seek God, the more you find out your true calling. God didn't ever tell us to judge people as a full-time job, so stop defending that pastime as if it was a product of caring instead of boredom (which I doubt).

For me Osteens message is just the first step until I can attain a more mature walk in Christ. But as I said, he is only the person to nudge you out the door. He is not the person on the other side of the door. Now that I have taken the step of the believer, I believe Jesus is guiding me the rest of the way. God uses unlikely people to do unlikely things. The last person I expected to help me out of my depression was a person called "the smiling pastor".

[saunatoohot]

Guys, if there is a better way to gauge if a person is speaking heresy or not, its best to determine first what kind of fruit is he bearing?

Jesus said so himself that a good tree bears good fruit and a bad tree bears bad fruit.

Can anyone here please tell me what kind of fruit Joel is bearing? Is it good or bad?

plsthnx.

[Ashley]

Joel Osteen is a wonderful Pastor. He preaches or as some like to put it "teaches" us to have faith. Either way, he wants us to stay positive and focus on the brighter things of life. He doesn't want us to get down on ourselves because he knows as I do the God I serve does not want me to go around my whole life depressed and sad. If I did that it means I am focused on me! Who wants to be around a sad depressed group of people all the time? I know I sure don't. God has made us to overcome evil and depression and this is what Osteen's messages teach us. Maybe people would realize this if they would sit down and listen to Osteen's message about the wonderful things God made us all to be. If Christians have to be sad, depressed, lonely, poor pitiful me all the time...who/what poor sinner would want to become a Christian. To show what it means to be a Christian we must have faith and happiness. The Bible says "faith without works is dead". The Bible also says "But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is , and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him." (Hebrews 11:6) Even Jesus said, " If you can believe, all things are possible to him who believes. (Mark 9:23) This is what Joel is trying to motivate people to do and instead people sit around and make fun of him and criticize. In the Bible I read no where have I found that God or Jesus said to sit around and laugh at people and judge them who preach the word of God so if there is a verse in there that says this and I am sure for a fact there isn't I would tell you to let me know but I would be wasting my time cause it doesn't exist. People need to stop pointing their fingers at everyone else like Joel Osteen and get their own affairs in order because time is almost to an end. Don't let judging others and pointing fingers keep you out of the place Jesus has prepared for us....Heaven! I love you all but God loves you more! God Bless Everyone Of You!

[Frank Verderosa]

As I read some of the positive comments about Joel Osteen my heart breaks. Those of us who have become watchmen on the wall are simply defending the gospel when we alert many to false teachings and we are attacked for proclaiming the truth. I ask you all to check out the new testament and see for yourself in any of the disciples preached like Osteen or any other positve speaker. You will not find it!. I dare you to take this prosperity message to the persecuted church in other countries. They have sacrificed everything for the truth. They are persecuted because they will not compromise the gospel and their persecution is jail and death. I'm sure they could avoid being persecuted if they do not preach the only way to heaven is through Jesus Christ.

[Sergio]

It says "Blessed are the poor in spirit." Not "Blessed are the poor," by the way...

[praying for those who are not acting like Christ]

I only have one thing to say, it is not Joel that needs to repent to you out there, it is you that needs to repent for attacking this man of God. To the people of this website, you posted on the video that he was misquoting Ephesians 1:4...I wouldl like to know WHAT BIBLE are you reading???? I would really like to know, because I believe that you people are not looking at your own eyes...I am going to add Ephesians 1:4 for you from NLT (which stands for New Living Translation)
"Long ago, even before he made the world, God loved us and chose us in Christ to be holy and without fault in his eyes.

You all that went after Pastor Osteen in this blog will have to answer to God for this sin, and the people who put that video together...One question: Do you believe that God Loves you and that when He looks at you, with His loving eyes that He sees sinless? Or do you believe that He still sees sin and rottenness? Because if you believe that He sees sin then you truly have not asked Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior of your life and to save you FROM YOUR SINS. Because of Jesus' blood, that wonderful blood, that was shed for you and me, WE ARE SPOTLESS...That was the whole point to Jesus coming here and paying OUR price.

Think about that!!!

Still praying.

[Sandy Stallings]

But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

1:9
As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

1:10
For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.

acursed- men curse each other paul is saying that if you preach any other gospel he is accursed- cursed by God. galatians1:8-10
God can carry out a curse men can not.
The Bible teaches that Christ and Christ alone give salvation. He is the only way to heaven. Joel did say salvation is in Christ alone, so he preaches another gospel. i didn't say that Paul said that. He wrote most of the New Testament. I would believe Paul not joel. Acts 4:12 No other name under heaven. Period. If you can get to heaven any other way, why would God send His son to die.

[Faeleia]

As I watched the video and saw other commentaries regarding other pastors, whether I know them or not, I find the commentary made by this site to be leaning to the biasness.

It is true that the right gospel must be heard in order for growth, but man will always be man. I do not believe for one moment that any pastor will be right 100% of the time. Well-meaning or not, accurate or not, these pastors are guided by the same holy spirit that guides us. The only thing the listener can do is to consult with the holy spirit on things heard. The Holy Spirit is the best teacher in this regard, along with the word of God. Should in any case a pastor say something contrary to popular opinion of the scripture, judgement must be exercised (according to scripture) to discern if a comment is to be absorbed or rejected.

In my walk for the search for things of God, I have come to know this. There will never be a 100% reliable source apart from God. Yet as christians in the infancy phase, they must drink from someone who imparts the word expounded for them, and not attempt to dive into the Bible because of a lack of understanding. I believe as Christians mature in God, the main source should be from Him directly, and like what my pastor (Joseph Prince) once said, the job of pastors is to feed the sheep, and confirm what the Holy Spirit has already revealed to the children of God.

In this sense, I believe that it is crucial to alert people of the existence of false prophets who stray from the word itself. Truly pastors and preachers are also human who are in need of the food from Jesus. The wisdom of God includes discernment, and the believer, for himself will have to discern for himself whether something said sits with the Holy Spirit, for it testifies only to truth.

On the other hand, directly highlighting who 'false prophets' are, I suggest this be done only with 100% conviction that the preacher in particular is for Satan's cause, to distract and detract people from following Jesus. And apart from God himself, this 100% cannot be judged by man alone.

As you know, media (esp internet and tv) and people can play tremendous influence on other people's judgement calls. To rely on sources other than Jesus is to put reliance on Him for discernment in subordinate position. I do not believe that all preachers who preach contrary to the word are not ordained by God. Some of them are also in need to be taught and nurtured, despite preaching the wrong things (what's bad is that if the pastor chooses repeatedly to rely on his or her success and ditch the calling from God to feed the sheep). Only God knows. Therefore, by labelling Joel Osteen as a heretical preacher is firstly doing what I mentioned earlier, by persuading people to completely disregard the words of the preacher entirely. I agree that to make it self-centered is non-humility, but by the sarcastic comments in the video splits people into sides of for and against Joel Osteen,is simply distracting people from Jesus. He is THE way. Let the focus remain on Him, not on the false preachers (as people fallible to sin and mistakes)

[oceanbreezes]

I just love how people take things and twist them for their own agenda. Why are people so upset by this? Osteen is saying that it's because of Jesus dying on the cross ... not by our own doing...that we'd be nothing without Jesus..that through Jesus' blood alone we are saved... that Jesus' victory is our victory. THAT is what Joel Osteen is saying ~ he's preaching Christianity. He just does it joyfully instead of screaming at you and adding man made rules that take all the joy out of a relationship with Jesus. Yeah ~ he sounds like a real danger to us dummies "being led astray by him" (rolling my eyes).

Here's another quote right from the video. "Because of the sacrifice HE(Jesus) made we are...abundantly free..." Sounds to me like Osteen IS putting the focus on Jesus ... not man.

He's the number 1 preacher in America...and what happen to those who rise to the top? People feel the need to try and knock 'em down by screaming ridiculous things like false prophet, of satan, "prosperity pimp" and a cult leader. If anyone is taking the focus away from Jesus it isn't Joel Osteen. It's those who are spending their pulpit time preaching about how wrong they think Joel Osteen is instead of preaching about how right Jesus is.

[oceanbreezes]

Also, finances are one of the most referred to areas of sin in the entire Bible. Osteen is telling people to straighten out their financial messes ... he just does it in a way that one thinks it isn't impossible. He preaches a message of hope instead of gloom and doom. Different preaching style - same message. big deal.

[nancy]

I find your comments just as incorrect as his then. The Bible called the WORD of GOD, CHRIST, not ANY book. Please post a scripture that you can find that calls the BIBLE the WORD of GOD? There is none. I find your ministry to be all about book whorship and not of GOD at all. Religion backed and not about GOD at all. How sad you comdemn other yet fail to see your own LOG!!

[m e brooks]

Every once in a while I stop when I see Osteen on. A Crossless / bloodless salvation. G_d is a squishy grandmother who looks the other way at when we fail and feeds us cookies and milk to a fault. That is what he preaches. To Osteen the Gate of heaven is Wide and the path ever expanding. All that matters is that you have "faith". Welcome to Laodicea boys.... jump on in. The water feels just fine!! Nice and warm. Not to Hot and not to Cold. Just right if you want to be comfortable.

[Wes]

Good video, but you took John 8:44 out of context. I think Pastor Osteen is way wrong on his teachings. Just be careful not to prooftext.

[KD]

Sounds like lots of people need to study their bible more--ever heard of Sunday school???? Judge not lest ye be judged...

[RobinG]

I believe Osteen is preaching the good news. And it is pastors like these that are always under scrutiny and persecuted. To put it simply, people just can't believe that God is so good and loving!

If all of you here want to be thought of as sinners, or as "dirty, rotten sinners" like the video said - be my guest. But me, for one, know the true meaning of Jesus' death on the cross. God no longer sees me as a sinner. But He sees me as a son who He wishes to bless abundantly, although I don't deserve it.

One of the beatitudes said that blesssed are those who are persecuted for righteousness sake, for they shall inherit the kingdom of heaven. I believe that righteousness stands for Jesus; and His death for us means total dominion over every circumstance in our lives. Isn't that the good news that Pastor Osteen is trying to convey?

[Lucas]

RobinG,

The thing is, you can't have good news without bad news. We must be broken by the law before we can receive the Gospel. Otherwise, why would we want it? If we aren't wretched, rotten sinners, why did Jesus die for us? It wasn't to pull us out of mediocrity, as Osteen would have you believe.

Yes, God is good and loving, but He is also wrathful! Being happy when we die will not lessen the terrible cup of wrath He has waiting for us.

We do not have total dominion over the circumstances in out lives. Only God does. Have you ever read that wonderful book called the Bible? It's FULL of people who let GOD have dominion in their lives and were counted righteous.

[Barbara]

Robin,

It was the Apostle Paul who settled the question of whether we "are" sinners or "were" sinners, when he said to Timothy in his first epistle to him,

It is a trustworthy statement, deserving full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, among whom I am foremost of all. Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life. (1 Timothy 1:14-16)

Note two things there, and this same theme permeates throughout Paul's letters:

1. He says he IS, not WAS, the foremost (or chief, depending on your translation) of all sinners. He considered himself to be the worst of the worst and he gladly suffered great persecution for it, indeed even proclaiming the Gospel to his captors so that they too were converted and even were gladly thrown into prison for their confession of faith.

2. And this:

Are they servants of Christ?--I speak as if insane--I more so; in far more labors, in far more imprisonments, beaten times without number, often in danger of death.
Five times I received from the Jews thirty-nine lashes.
Three times I was beaten with rods, once I was stoned, three times I was shipwrecked, a night and a day I have spent in the deep. I have been on frequent journeys, in dangers from rivers, dangers from robbers, dangers from my countrymen, dangers from the Gentiles, dangers in the city, dangers in the wilderness, dangers on the sea, dangers among false brethren; I have been in labor and hardship, through many sleepless nights, in hunger and thirst, often without food, in cold and exposure. Apart from such external things, there is the daily pressure on me of concern for all the churches. Who is weak without my being weak? Who is led into sin without my intense concern? If I have to boast, I will boast of what pertains to my weakness. - 2 Cor. 11:23-31

And in the end, he was beheaded by Nero. I'm sure you are aware that Nero had a habit of impaling Christians on poles, covering them with tar and using them as torches. And that the global persecution of Christians because of their testimony of Christ is at a level that is greater now than ever before in history? (www.persecution.com , www.opendoors.com) Richard Wurmbrand, the founder of Voice of the Martyrs, was himself imprisoned by the Communists for preaching the Gospel of Christ, and he as well as John Bunyan, who wrote Pilgrim's Progress while imprisoned for preaching the Gospel, and Corrie Ten Boom, who was imprisoned by the Nazis for living out the Gospel, all related having met Christ most sweetly while imprisoned. A "gospel" of "belive this and do this and you can have your best life now" doesn't get people imprisoned or crucified - it gets them celebrated and lots of book deals.

See, in the time of the first century church, during which it was written that whoever confesses with his mouth Jesus Christ as Lord shall be saved, to "confess Jesus with your mouth" meant that you were as likely as not to be dragged outside the city gates and stoned to death for it. They weren't given houses and cars (carts?) and handshakes and then everybody go out to eat. To confess Christ as Lord meant that you had just lain everything - even your own life and heartbeat - on the line for His name. You don't do that unless you know Him and trust Him so completely that you are willing to die with joy if that's what it takes for His message to spread and for God to be glorified. And as Scripture says, Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever. The price hasn't changed - it's still a cross. But yet at the same time He reminds us that His yoke is easy and His burden is light. How can that be? Because He changes our hearts so that our desire is now for Him and not for this world. And so our greatest joys are to be found in Him. Jesus calls us to deny ourselves, take up our cross and follow Him; Romans 8:28-30 reminds us that "all good things working together for the good of those who love Him and are called according to His purpose" means that we will be conformed (from the inside out) to the image of Christ and will be glorified; that He who began a good work in us will finish it at the time of Christ Jesus (Phil. 1:6), and that as a fruit of the Spirit we will have joy in our trials (not dominion over them, as they are sent to the child of God as fuller's soap, a refiner's fire, as discipline, which we are commanded not to despise - see Malachi 3 and Hebrews 12. The Psalms are full of David's cries to God for deliverance and wondering why the wicked people seemed to have it easier (David was a man after God's own heart and just look at all the family problems he had!)and then he would always come back to God's perfect will and His sovereignty and His love, and simply rest in that no matter how hard things were, and he would remember that the here and now is not where it's at:

Whom have I in heaven but You?
And besides You, I desire nothing on earth.
My flesh and my heart may fail,
But God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever.
For, behold, those who are far from You will perish; You have destroyed all those who are unfaithful to You.
But as for me, the nearness of God is my good;
I have made the Lord GOD my refuge,
That I may tell of all Your works. (Psalm 73:25-end)

Never elevate "gift" above "Giver" - even the gift of salvation. It is God who is our portion, not his gifts; and we are to seek Him. His gifts, including the joy and peace of knwoing Him and of simply trusting in Him no matter how dire the situation may appear, of knowing that in the end He will have the reward for which He died - and that He is faithful and true (believe me, that's huge when that really comes "home" to the heart when we are used to living in a fickle world) as the first commandment, repeated over and over again in the Scriptures, is that "You will have no other gods before (or besides) me" - repeated often and by Jesus as, "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all they heart and with all thy soul and with all they strength - this is the first and great command." The rich young ruler, who came to Jesus and thought that he had upheld the entire law, was then shown that he lived the breaking of hte the first commandment, because he saw that he could not give up his earthly possessions in order to follow Jesus. His attachment to them was greater than than his love for God. You see? He told another would-be follower, "Foxes have holes and birds have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay his head." The man didn't want to live like that - he desired earthly comfort more than he wanted to follow Christ. Jesus had a way of doing that in his earthly ministry, getting to the heart of peoples' motives for following him. And if they weren't willing to drop their nets and go, he made the point that "the one who puts his hand to he plow and looks back is not fit for the kingdom of God." (Luke 9:62)

Those are hard words, and they are from the mouth of Jesus.

Jesus died to save us from our sins, not to give us our best life now - in fact, as Paul again reminds us, if this life on earth is our greatest hope, then we are the most to be pitied. (1 Cor. 15:19).

And yet, this same "hope" of an easy earthly life is exactly the kind of message that's being expounded from a horrifyingly increasing number of pulpits. It sounds good, it makes hurting people feel better about having some control over their own lives in an increasingly insane world, but it stops short of giving them the true gospel, and so people walk around utterly deceived.

It's not a new trick in the enemy's book, just a new spin on an old one: the ancient Jews were looking for an earthly Messiah to conquer the Romans and to free them from the unpleasantries of this life - they were looking for earthly deliverance. But that's not what God sent His only begotten Son, whom He loved, to become sin and thus suffer His wrath in my place and then overcome that death with His resurrection in order to provide for me: He did that so that those who will believe on Christ (and as Paul reminds us, faith is a gift from God - Ephesians 2; and James reminds us that faith is more than mere belief in some facts but will show itself in our lives), that those who are adopted into the vine as testified by the Holy Spirit through a "heart transplant" (Ezekiel 11 and 36), those whom He cleanses of all their filthy idols and causes to walk in His statutes (Ezekiel 36), those whom He makes a new covenant with and in whom He puts the fear of Himself so that they will not turn away from Him (Jeremiah 32); those whom he buys from the world with His blood so that they will be His people and He will be their God - they will bear the righteousness of Christ imputed to them (not of our own value, it is Christ's blood and merits that save) live eternally with Him, beholding His glory, worshiping Him, and all the joy and peace and mercy and love that goes along with that - because when that happens, your eternal life starts now, with a new eternal spirit and that new heart - and though we still have to live in this corrupt flesh and do battle with sin every day (it is the cross we carry if we are to follow HIm, it is all a sanctifying work that brings us closer to Him, causes us to see our own weakness and to lean on Him, depending on Him, gloriously surrendered to Him, and He fills us with the fruits of the Spirit (Galatians 5)even as He puts us to work as part of His body and prepares us for Heaven as the bride to be presnted to Christ at the end.

I pray for all grace and peace to be with you. And note, too, with what I have said as well as with what Osteen says, and with what anything anybody else says, get a reliable translation (not a paraphrase) of the Scriptures and test all things. In Act 17, after Paul leaves Athens and continues on his journey spreading the Gospel of Christ as the promised Messiah, he came to the city of Berea. In 17:11 the word of God says that the Bereasn were noble, more noble than those at Thessalonica, because they listened eagerly and then examined the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so. If the Bereans were praised for checking up and studying behind the Apostle Paul, I don't think God's gonna fuss if you check up in His word behind me or Osteen or anybody else. But read for context, break out a good concordance with Greek and Hebrew (such as Strong's) and study, examine - don't just read a verse here and there, and don't swallow what any TV preacher tells you without prayerful laboring in the Word, seeking His Truth, because as it is written,

For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.
But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.
It was for this He called you through our gospel, that you may gain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us. Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself and God our Father, who has loved us and given us eternal comfort and good hope by grace, comfort and strengthen your hearts in every good work and word.
(2 Thess. 2:11-17)

And remember the words of the serpent in the Garden: "Hath God really said...?" and "....you shall be as gods..."

May God bless you.

[destiny]

Hi Everyone!
I want to be very careful in my approach here. I read just about every entry here and the first thought that came to mind was a scripture, as Paul stated: "Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure." Phil 2:12

The best characterisitic about Christ, our Lord and Savior is that He came to all of us, 'Right Where We Were'. We have all sinned and none of us have 'arrived'. So let's not judge one another about the different levels of our maturity and that of Pastor Osteen. Let's keep all slander from our mouths. We are all accountable for ourselves at the very end. I pray that everyone here evaluates themselves and be thankful for who Christ is to you.

None of us are Christ, it is only He gives salvation and redemption. I don't tune-into Pastor Osteen because he is just not my pastor, I have a church home BUT God was thinking of me and He knew exactly what I needed to hear from Osteen to be blessed and triumphant. Christ's Love is so HUGE, that for 5min, my mind chgd and heart chgd and I believe my marriage is blessed because of it. I am just so thankful. So let's all stop the 'FOOLISHNESS' and be THANKFUL!

(smile)Be Blessed